Missoula OC'r Detained by Police

[Ca Patriot]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/lo...cle_034ca9fa-8840-11e2-b6ac-0019bb2963f4.html

Reading the comments on the article are disturbing.

 

[We-the-People]

I firmly believe that the hopolophobes are most afraid of law abiding gun owners because they are afraid of their OWN violent tendencies and inability to control their OWN emotions. They therefore, incorrectly, conclude that anyone carrying afirearm must be dangerous as they would be dangerous if they were the one with the firearm. Evidence the commenter calling for the police to issue forth a "Hail of bullets" against a law abiding citizen for simply being armed ear a school. Surely if THEY can't be trusted to remain non violent, no one else can either.

IGNORANT brady bunchers.

 

[Ca Patriot]

I wonder who called police ?

I also wonder why the Missoulian ran the story ? They are the most radical liberal rag piece around.

 

[slapmonkay]

Thinking about submitting a FOIA to get the information for this.

At least the article was right, its not illegal to carry in Missoula parks. http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1032#Chapter_12_40

 

[FreeInAZ]

http://missoulian.com/news/local/lo...cle_034ca9fa-8840-11e2-b6ac-0019bb2963f4.html

Reading the comments on the article are disturbing.

Indeed. This are the same people who will not put their money where their mouth is and post "This house is gun free" sign in front of their homes. Lice sucking off others responsible actions while reaping the benefits..

 

[Ca Patriot]

Isnt this technically a violation of the federal gun free zone law ?

 

[OC for ME]

I wonder who called police ? <snip>

Did you read the story? The answer to your question is right in there.

Isn't this technically a violation of the federal gun free zone law ?

Depends on the law in Montana. More correctly.....no, the cops stated that no law was violated. That too is in the story.

FUQ

The person was reported to Lowell Principal Brian Bessette about 1:15 p.m.

As a measure of caution, Bessette contacted the Missoula Police Department and kept students inside until officers could talk with the person.


Police determined that it was legal to have a holstered firearm in the park and that the person had broken no laws.

RIF

http://www.rif.org/

 

[slapmonkay]

Isnt this technically a violation of the federal gun free zone law ?

Not in Montana. See MCA 45-8-360.

Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.

 

[Augustin]

At least the article was right, its not illegal to carry in Missoula parks. http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/1032#Chapter_12_40

Wrong, slapmonkey. Firearms are prohibited in city parks in Missoula.

Montana does have a preemption law that prevents municipal or county governments from enacting gun laws more restrictive than state law, but it does allow cities to ban guns in city parks, which Missoula has done. So the cops did have the required "particularized suspicion" to detain the OCer. In fact, he could have been arrested. Seems to me the cops were lienient by not arresting the man.

According to the Montana Shooting Sports Association,

"Local governments preemption. 45-8-351, M.C.A. There is a preemption law in Montana that prevents local governments from passing gun control ordinances, except for regulating the discharge of firearms inside city limits, and regulating the carrying of firearms into public parks and public buildings. This law was enacted in 1985 with the assistance of people who later founded MSSA."

And according to the City of Missoula's Official Website,

http://www.ci.missoula.mt.us/?nid=289

"The following are not allowed in parks:
Amplified music
Animals in parks except dogs on leashes
Charging for entry to parks
Charging or selling anything in parks without permission from the Parks and Recreation Director
Digging or driving pegs in the ground
Firearms or fireworks
Motorized vehicles except in designated areas
Open fires
Overnight camping
Practicing golf"

AUGustin

 

[slapmonkay]

I am fully aware of Montana law.

The link I provided was to the Missoula Municipal Code. On the page it has the Parks code. I could not find anything in the MMC restricting firearms in parks. Please let me know if you find otherwise, with a citation. Your link implies a rule as far as I can tell since there is no law to back it up that I have found.

 

[Ca Patriot]

I searched through the city municipal codes and I cant find any code that prohibits open carry in city parks. Clearly the citys website says firearms arent allowed in parks but like slapmokney says that appears to be a "rule" rather than a law.

 

[Ca Patriot]

Not in Montana. See MCA 45-8-360.

If the person had a CCW then it would be legal.

However, if the person did NOT have a concealed carry permit and was open carrying then I believe it would be a violation of federal law.

 

[slapmonkay]

If the person had a CCW then it would be legal.

However, if the person did NOT have a concealed carry permit and was open carrying then I believe it would be a violation of federal law.

No need for carry permit in MT. Re-read the provided statue. Everyone able to possess a firearm under MT law/constitution is here by individually verified and licensed the state in regards to the FGFZA. No permit required.

 

[Ca Patriot]

No need for carry permit in MT. Re-read the provided statue. Everyone able to possess a firearm under MT law/constitution is here by individually verified and licensed the state in regards to the FGFZA. No permit required.

The way I read the federal code it states that only people licensed to carry can be exempt from the FGFZA.

18 - 922(q)
(2)
(A)It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B)Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i)on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii)if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

 

[OC for ME]

Montana licenses every one of their LAC. Montana does not require a physical permission slip to be possessed by a Montana LAC to prove that he is licensed.

It is very simple, every Montana LAC is exempt from the federal GFSZ law.....Montana says so.

 

[OC for ME]

Montana licenses every one of their LAC. Montana does not require a physical permission slip to be possessed by a Montana LAC to prove that he is licensed.

It is very simple, every Montana LAC is exempt from the federal GFSZ law.....Montana says so.

45-8-360. Establishment of individual licensure. In consideration that the right to keep and bear arms is protected and reserved to the people in Article II, section 12, of the Montana constitution, a person who has not been convicted of a violent, felony crime and who is lawfully able to own or to possess a firearm under the Montana constitution is considered to be individually licensed and verified by the state of Montana within the meaning of the provisions regarding individual licensure and verification in the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act.

Can not be any more crystal clear.

 

[Ca Patriot]

So a person in Montana gets a "license" just by doing nothing ?

 

[4sooth]

Federal "gun free" zones were created by tying the act of carrying a firearm in the prohibited area to the "commerce clause" by claiming the mere act of possessing the weapon in the zone had a negative effect on commerce. SCOTUS said--NO! Congress passed a new one but the violation is still tied to the commerce clause and would likely be overturned as well. See U.S. v Lopez 514 U.S. 549.

 

[Ca Patriot]

Federal "gun free" zones were created by tying the act of carrying a firearm in the prohibited area to the "commerce clause" by claiming the mere act of possessing the weapon in the zone had a negative effect on commerce. SCOTUS said--NO! Congress passed a new one but the violation is still tied to the commerce clause and would likely be overturned as well. See U.S. v Lopez 514 U.S. 549.

There was a thread on this topic over at Cal Guns and apparently there have been 7 convictions under the new law.

The weird thing is I think 5 of them were in Puerto Rico or US Virgin Islands and only 1 or 2 were in the continental US. They also all involved major criminal subjects with many additional charges like drug smuggling.

 

[Augustin]

I could not find anything in the MMC restricting firearms in parks. Please let me know if you find otherwise, with a citation. Your link implies a rule as far as I can tell since there is no law to back it up that I have found.

Slapmonkey, perhaps you are correct and I was wrong. If so, I do apologize.

However, I assume that rules are enforceable, otherwise why have them in the first place?

By your reasoning you could also build a bonfire, shoot off fireworks, and camp overnight.

If you did search the Missoula Codes and found nothing (and I do believe you), then that would explain why the OCer wasn't arrested or cited.

Maybe their BS rule is intended to discourage open carry - a way for anti-gunners to throw their weight around without going through the City Council.

One could contact the City Clerk office at 406-552-6079 for a definitive answer.

AUGustin