• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Montana ID Laws

tarkio

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6
Location
, ,
imported post

I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
because I have a sidearm?

Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

tarkio wrote:
I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
because I have a sidearm?

Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.
Have you searched your state's statutes for any requirement to identify your self to police generally? Most states have no such statutes and the inquiry essenitally ends there.
 

tarkio

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6
Location
, ,
imported post

Thanks for the info.

However, the MCA section states that it must be a lawful stop so I guess that means that a person does not have to provide anything if the stop is a fishing expedition or the police doesn't have PC.

Thanks again.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

gridboy wrote:
http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm

Looks like they can demand name, present address and explanation of
actions. If you're driving, they can demand license, registration and
insurance.

A bunch of states have stop-and-identify statutes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify

gridboy

wow - 24 states have some kind of stop & ID law.

Under Hiibel and the Fifth Amendment the giving of your address and explaning your actions is probably unconstitutional.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

tarkio wrote:
Thanks for the info.

However, the MCA section states that it must be a lawful stop so I guess that means that a person does not have to provide anything if the stop is a fishing expedition or the police doesn't have PC.

Thanks again.
Yeah - regardless of statute, Fourth Amendment requires any stop be lawful, i.e., Terry compliant.
 

tarkio

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6
Location
, ,
imported post

Yes but police will sometime try to converse with you and make you feel that you are required to reply even when it isn't Terry compliant. That was my question.

From the MCA it is obvious that police here must inform you asap if it is a detention or arrest and what the stop is for.

Thanks.
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
imported post

Mike wrote:
gridboy wrote:
http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/46/5/46-5-401.htm

Looks like they can demand name, present address and explanation of
actions. If you're driving, they can demand license, registration and
insurance.

A bunch of states have stop-and-identify statutes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify

gridboy

wow - 24 states have some kind of stop & ID law.

Under Hiibel and the Fifth Amendment the giving of your address and explaning your actions is probably unconstitutional.
Hiibbel v NV

Supreme Court Upholds Constitutionality of Arrest for Refusal to Identify. In a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court has narrowly upheld a Nevada law allowing law enforcement to arrest an individual when he refuses to identify himself, and reasonable suspicion--though not probable cause--exists that he has committed a crime. (June 21, 2004)

Let's be clear, as this is important. Reasonable articulable suspicion must exist that he has, or is about to commit a crime. The criteria are exactly the same as a Terry stop and frisk. And again, let's be clear, this is Federal Law. The SC has left it up to the states to define their own laws with respect to providing ID. Ask, why do you want to know? Are you detaining me? If so, under what reasonable suspicion? If not, adios MF. If so, tell him your name and you want to speak with your lawyer and will answer no more questions without him being present.
 

Catherine

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
40
Location
USA
imported post

Didn't some of these 'laws' change with the Patriot Act which is NOT 'patriotic'?

I thought that a person who was not even 'open carrying' and walking on the sidewalks in an 'ordinary manner' could be stopped and asked to produce identification. Maybe that will keep people from carrying ID which I read on some big L not small l Libertarian boards! Ha!

I remember reading about this on various forums where they cited NEW laws especially since the Pat Acts and other 'things' :)cuss:) were shoved through Congress and the White House.

There was something that MSSA and the ACLU agreed on, worked together on when it came to many of these NEW laws and acts. I don't think it was the one about the Montana Driver's License (Federal ID Compliance.) where the state of Montana told them to shove it! ; . )

Catherine
 

40s-and-wfan

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
490
Location
Lake County, Montana, USA
imported post

tarkio wrote:
I cannot seem to find this anywhere so if this is a repost I apologize.

What are the laws in MT concerning law enforcement stopping you if you are open carrying, or anything else for that matter?

In other words, if I'm stopped while OCing, do I have to provide identification? Must I answer the officer if he has no reason for stopping me otehr than to ask who, what, why
because I have a sidearm?

Any answers and citations if you have them would be greatly appreciated.
Check out MCA 46-5-401. That may answer some questions for you!
 
Top