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OC in Restaurants in Montana

abearir

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Great Falls, Montana, USA
imported post

I OC all the time. WalMart, gas, restaurants, you name it. You'll find 99.9% of people don't even notice your armed. Those that do, 99% of them don't care. YMMV

Page 3 ownage
 
T

TWG2A

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imported post

***EDITED***

Unfortunately when we Women wear a sidearm we get attention. At this point I don't care anymore, but it can be rather confrontational at times.
 

Emmeric

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Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
17
Location
Butte, Montana, USA
imported post

Don't feel so bad! :p

My wife likes me with a beard and long hair. People look at the white in my beard, the length of my un-Grecian'd hair, my tailored shirts and fedora with nothing short of "it's an alien!" look of shock.

I wear a swastika pin (long story) and they don't know what the heck to make of me.

A gun will attract attention no matter how you look. But, in this state, the vast majority of looks will be looks of respect. We all owe that to ourselves in this modern society of contempt and ignorance.
 
T

TWG2A

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imported post

I've met some really great people here in Montana thus far. Volunteering for the Memorial Day Parade here in Bozeman on Monday was the perfect opportunity to meet our fellow Patriots and to learn more about this area. Aside from the college students, people here in Bozeman seem to be hard-working freedom-loving Americans and, as you say, probably wouldn't look twice at my sidearm unless it were to see what I was carrying. I guess I'm worrying too much. I moved from the belly of the socialist beast (downtown Seattle) and still trying to acclimate. The people are quite different here but it's quite a refreshing change. If I wore a sidearm in downtown Seattle, some idiot would be screaming in my face and shoving me, trying to provoke a fight. I'm quite used to the confrontations, but I'd sure like to think nobody here would be so vile.

These days, I'm a little bitlike a pitbull that's been kicked and abused way too long. My tolerance has been gnawed to the bone. Sure hope I can shake that soon. Some fishing will be good for me.
 

SuSHi

New member
Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Messages
1
Location
Helena Montana
Let's give this a try shall we?

I live in Helena, the sheriff dept. was very uninformed and uncooperative about telling me what our open carry laws were, am I right in thinking it can not be loaded? and does that mean that one can not be in the chamber? Can I have bullets in my pocket? I was quite disturbed at the Sheriff dept.'s lack of knowledge and want to help me not break the law... I plan to start open carrying in Helena, absolutely everywhere just because it's my constitutional right, therefore I feel that I need to be informed about these things. Can you older chaps lend me a hand here? Thank you very much in advance.

Also, the gun has to be fully shown and can not be covered at all right?
 
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aadvark

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You are Right, and within your Rights as well.

The ONLY place that is Illegal in Montana for Open Carry is School Buildings, K-12, per Montana Code 45-8-361. However, you are 'Individually Licensed', under Monatna Code 45-8-360, for School Zone Carry, per Federal Law.

Concealed Carry is more Regulated than Open Carry.

Loaded Open Carry in an Unconcealed Fashion is Legal in Montana, in accordance with Montana Code 45-8-351, but Helena could make your Life difficult at their: 1. Public Assemblies, 2. Public Buildings, or 3. Parks.

Lo' and behold..., The City of Helena has done so, per Helena Code 5-1-32.

Loaded Firearms are OK under Montana Law, but Helena Code says that they are not. Needless to say..., Helena is Preempted in this Area, BUT their Prohibitions in the areas listed 1-3 above, ARE Lawful..., be careful.
 
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Augustin

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Loaded Open Carry in an Unconcealed Fashion is Legal in Montana, in accordance with Montana Code 45-8-351, but Helena could make your Life difficult at their: 1. Public Assemblies, 2. Public Buildings, or 3. Parks.

Lo' and behold..., The City of Helena has done so, per Helena Code 5-1-32.

Loaded Firearms are OK under Montana Law, but Helena Code says that they are not. Needless to say..., Helena is Preempted in this Area, BUT their Prohibitions in the areas listed 1-3 above, ARE Lawful..., be careful.

Could you please quote this Helena Code and explain further? Are you saying that the City has outlawed having a loaded chanber while open carrying at assemblies, public buildings, and parks?
 

aadvark

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Augustin:

Montana State Law 45-8-351 reads:

45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.

(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.

(b) Nothing contained herein shall allow any government to prohibit the legitimate display of firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others, nor shall anything contained herein prohibit the legitimate transportation of firearms through any jurisdiction, whether in airports or otherwise.

History: En. Sec. 1, Ch. 589, L. 1985; amd. Sec. 11, Ch. 759, L. 1991.

Helena City Code reads:

5-1-32: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS PROHIBITED; EXCEPTIONS:

A. Prohibition: It shall be unlawful, and a misdemeanor, for any person, other than a peace officer in the discharge of his duties, or a citizen in the protection of his life or that of his family or his property, or any person authorized by law: (Ord. 2719, 9-26-1994)

1. To carry on or about his person, in any place open to the public, any loaded or concealed firearm, rifle, airgun or pistol within the limits of this city, or to shoot any airgun, rifle, pistol, sling shot or bow and arrow within the limits of this city, except in those areas designated as indoor or outdoor rifle, pistol, shotgun or archery ranges as designated and approved by the city manager. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)

*** Helena City Code 5-1-32(A)(1) is ILLEGAL, per Montana State Law 45-8-351! A Firearm may be Loaded in Montana, without Restrictions, and may also be Concealed, with a Montana Concealed Weapons Permit. ***

2. To possess any firearm, airgun or pistol at a public assembly, in a city park, school, or in any publicly owned building, with the specific exceptions of:

a. Legitimate displays of unloaded firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others; and

b. Persons participating in hunter or gun safety classes sanctioned by the department of fish, wildlife and parks and authorized by the city or school. (Ord. 2447, 7-27-1987)

*** Unfortunately, this provision of Helena City Code, 5-1-32(A)(2)(a) AND 5-1-32(A)(2)(b) is LEGAL. ***

B. Exceptions: Nothing in this chapter shall apply to a person in actual service in the military of the United States or the state, as a law enforcement officer or person summoned to his aid, nor to a revenue or other civil officer engaged in the discharge of his official duties, nor carrying of arms in one's premises or place of business, or where a concealed weapons permit has been granted to bear, concealed or otherwise, a pistol or revolver during the time of such permission. (Ord. 2670, 4-26-1993; amd. Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)

*** This section, Helena City Code 5-1-32(B) COMPLIES with Montana State Law, and it seems to work an exception to the provisions of Helena City Code 5-1-32(2)! ***

C. Concealed Weapons: Any person carrying a concealed weapon pursuant to a valid concealed weapons permit, upon being stopped by a law enforcement officer while in possession of said weapon, must immediately advise said law enforcement officer of the location and type of weapon and show a valid permit for carrying the same. (Ord. 2626, 1-27-1992)

*** Legal, under Montana State Law. ***

D. Staged Presentation: Any person who wishes to present a staged presentation using firearms containing blanks or black powder only may submit a written request to the city manager stating the time, location and duration of the presentation. If the request is approved, the manager shall forward to the chief law enforcement officer of the city a copy of the written approval to inform the city police and for posting at the location of the presentation. (Ord. 2742, 6-5-1995)

*** ILLEGAL, nothing in Montana State Law 45-8-351 says that a Person has to ask for Permission in order to do, what Helena Calls '... [a] Staged Presentation', on City Property. See Montana State Law 45-8-351(b)! ***

Helena may NOT Prohibit Loaded Firearms in Public Places, as if they did so they would Violate Montana State Law 45-8-351, regarding Preemption.

Helena CAN, however; Prohibit Firearms in their own: 1. Public Buildings, 2. Parks, and 3. Assemblies, per an exception that The Montana Legislature has outlined in Montana State Law 45-8-351.

Helena has a Municipal Code that Authorizes the enforcement of 'Firearm-Free Zones' in and around the places listed under 1-3 above, and it is Helena Code 5-1-32(A)(2).

aadvark
 
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MT GUNNY

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Jul 21, 2007
Messages
309
Location
Kalispell, Montana, USA
45-3-111. Openly carrying weapon -- display -- exemption. (1) Any person who is not otherwise prohibited from doing so by federal or state law may openly carry a weapon and may communicate to another person the fact that the person has a weapon.

That is a newly inacted law in the MCA last year, it may negate more of Helena's carry laws.
 

Augustin

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aadvark,

Thanks for the lengthy reply. So do you or anybody else know if there have been arrests for open carry in Helena under their UNconstitutional city code? And if so, did it come to a halt after the passage of SB228?

I do know that if I'm ever arrested by a city cop for open carry, I'll bring a civil suit against the jackboot PERSONALLY. And yes, I do have the $30K-$50K needed for my attorney fees. I'd love to see one of these pigshots face a 6-person Montana jury. Things are getting bad out there. Check out this story from Phoenix, AZ:

http://www.infowars.com/psycho-cop-shoots-kills-unarmed-man-and-dog/
 

Augustin

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I live in Helena, the sheriff dept. was very uninformed and uncooperative about telling me what our open carry laws were, (snip) Also, the gun has to be fully shown and can not be covered at all right?

Generally, asking the cops for legal advice is very risky, especially regarding firearm laws. Read all the Montana Codes yourself at: http://www.mtssa.org/mtlaws.phtml

The firearm cannot be "wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying or bearing the weapon" (see MCA 45-8-315). I take this to mean that a pistol cannot be carried Mexican-style (tucked into waistband) as it would be partially covered by the pants. Also, a pistol cannot be tucked between a belt and the pants as the gun would be partially covered by wearing apparel (the belt). It can, however, be carried in a purse, fannypack, of daypack legally in city limits WITHOUT a permit.

Augustin
 

aadvark

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Billings and Helena are the only two places in Montana that are 'Firearms Sensitive'.
The rest of Montana State is Pro-Firearm, as far as I understand.
 

40s-and-wfan

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Jan 11, 2009
Messages
490
Location
Lake County, Montana, USA
Okay, I'm resurrecting an old thread here so shoot me if you don't like it! (No pun intended)

If there's anyone in the Flathead Valley that would love to test the acceptability and allow-ability of OC in restaurants in the area let me know. I'd love to see what reactions would be and how people would respond to an individual, or a few individuals who come into their eatery who are openly carrying.
I don't want to start any controversy, but I do want to see who will and who won't allow it. There's about one way to find out.
 

N605TW

Activist Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2010
Messages
118
Location
Columbus, Ohio
A bit too far for me. I open carry into restaurants all the time here in Helena. I haven't had any issues yet.
 

MT Yon

New member
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
4
Location
Great Falls, Montana, United States
I OC and CC in Great Falls and the only place I have had ANY guff about it was when I forgot to take it off before walking into the local MSU campus. I was asked to let a maintenance man escort me to my truck so I could lock it up and then let me back in. I had already been all through the school three times between the admissions office, bookstore and math department for 45 minutes before anyone even said anything.

Let's see for your list of OK OC restaurants and stores in Great Falls:
Mongolian Grill
Fuddruckers
Taco Bell
McDonalds
Prospector (restaurant side, don't drink)
Salad Creations
Subway (all 4 of them)
Walmart
KMart
The Holiday Village Mall
Staples
Office Max
Home Depot
Sam's Club
Ace Hardware
and many more... getting as fuzzy on memory as grey in the beard...

And of course 4 M Investment Group, only one of our employees does not have her CW Permit yet, but I am still working on my wife to get it to bring us up to 100% :lol:
 

40s-and-wfan

Regular Member
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Jan 11, 2009
Messages
490
Location
Lake County, Montana, USA
Either way, if this new HB 384 passes then we'll be able to carry concealed in just about any place in the state aside from schools according to how I read it and what was told to me from someone else who read it.
 

MT4Runner

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
20
Location
Kalispell, MT
If there's anyone in the Flathead Valley that would love to test the acceptability and allow-ability of OC in restaurants in the area let me know. I'd love to see what reactions would be and how people would respond to an individual, or a few individuals who come into their eatery who are openly carrying.

Sure, I'd be interested.

I don't budget a lot for "eating out"....it cuts down on my budget for guns and reloading, :lol: but I would be willing to start finding out.

emailshawnkayak at yahoodot com
 

Longshot117

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Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
4
Location
Montana
If you guys are ever looking to try this in great falls, you most likely will not get much of a reaction. I OC at every restaurant I go into, and I go into a LOT of them. The most you will get is a quick glance at your weapon, then they will just do their job and not care. I have even had people come up and compliment me on my weapon choice and thank myself or my girlfriend for open carrying. Just as long as you don't try to sit at the bar in a restaurant, nobody will care. And if someone does complain, the usual response is that the manager tells them that it is perfectly legal, and that us carrying is normal. I love living in this state! I am very grateful to be out of California, where even wearing one of my knives would make some people nervous!
 
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