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OC-ing in Arizona

cocked&locked

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Apr 14, 2011
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PA
Voluntarily turned over by the store owner to whom, the complainant? Y'alls' fact-free hypothetical road to Hell is paved with ad-hockery.
Your childish rants don't add anything to the discussion. This type of evidence is generally collected by the investigator in the case, after which it is reviewed and then turned over together with a report to the prosecutor.
 

color of law

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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
In Virginia, if you are the victim of a crime you can file a petition for a citizen's complaint. What you do is you appear in front of a General District Court judge in the county where the crime was committed and you [strike]present the evidence of your crime.[/strike]

If the judge agrees that there is sufficient evidence and he agrees that a law was broken then the judge orders that an arrest warrant be issued and the police will have to go and arrest the individual and he will be given a court date. Then the entire case is turned over to prosecution who will them make their decisions about how to handle the case.

Your evidence is corroboration by shady looking characters.
How about "present the evidence of the perpetrator's crime."
 

Fallschirjmäger

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If this happened recently and in a convenience store, I suppose there might be some slim chance that a video camera might be pointed in the general direction of the cash registers where the OP was. So, there just maybe, might have been some 'corroborating' evidence besides the word of any supposedly shady characters.
 

countryclubjoe

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The anti's would argue that the open carrier was the " thug, or looked shady" to them..

We need not draw conclusions based on a person's skin color, or dress, or long hair, tattoos etc..

We need to be diligent, while not jumping to conclusions, the crazy person in the crowd may be wearing an expensive suit and tie with a crew cut.

Do not judge that book, by its cover!

My .02
CCJ
 

cocked&locked

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There is no investigator yet, the complainant is still petitioning the judge for his citizen's complaint. Come on now, child, keep up. See 1116 post.
And you have already been told that the OP's sworn complaint alone is enough to establish probable cause to arrest and move forward with the case. Corroborating evidence can be gathered at any point before trial; even during trial, in some circumstances.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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And you have already been told that the OP's sworn complaint alone is enough to establish probable cause to arrest and move forward with the case. Corroborating evidence can be gathered at any point before trial; even during trial, in some circumstances.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Just so I have this straight, as it may come in handy....


If I call the cops and swear out a complaint that my neighbor 'strong-arm' robbed me (with absolutely no evidence to back it up), I can get him arrested and put in jail long enough for him to miss his favorite program?

And when/if it comes to court all I have to do is lose the case (because there's no evidence that he threatened me with battery) and the only one's who's day was ruined was his?

Sign me the Eff up!
 
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Va_Nemo

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There is no investigator yet, the complainant is still petitioning the judge for his citizen's complaint. Come on now, child, keep up. See 1116 post.
Actually, petitioning the court directly is the last option. A visit to a magistrate, filing forms and answering questions under oath is prior to that.

Seems once again you know not that of which you speak.

Nemo
 
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countryclubjoe

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I have suggested and many others here have as well.. When out exercising your right and open carrying.. Have a video camera on your person..

The VC should be your friend after your weapon.. Having the VC will alleviate any issues that may arise when out and about.

My .02
CCJ
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Two video cameras, one facing forward, one covering your six. How about this, a hardhat with four cameras mounted to cover 360 degrees.

When a citizen is "eyeballing me" I ask them if I may be of assistance. I have yet to assist anyone who has been eyeballing me...they have left the area, every time.
 

Rusty Young Man

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Árida Zona
I think some of the opinions brought up in the thread really deserve a second thought. What if you WERE to follow up with the police? What if you DID get their attention and they asked the store owner if they could have copies of the tapes from the attempted snatch and grab?

I'm down in Tucson, but even down here the police aren't exactly uppity with lawfully armed citizens who decide to OC. Who knows, you might get somewhere and get press time for the next legislative push for classifying an attempt to snatch a firearm as assault and battery. Didn't pass with Brewer but there's always a chance if could pass with Ducey?


Seriously, if the "wannabe cholos" haven't grown out of it by the time they hit 15, they're likely not "wannabes, they're the real thing. The knife idea is a sound one, and something that could be a foolproof backup if your strong side gets tied down trying to stop a gun grab (knives can't jam :p).
 

cocked&locked

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I think some of the opinions brought up in the thread really deserve a second thought. What if you WERE to follow up with the police? What if you DID get their attention and they asked the store owner if they could have copies of the tapes from the attempted snatch and grab?

I'm down in Tucson, but even down here the police aren't exactly uppity with lawfully armed citizens who decide to OC. Who knows, you might get somewhere and get press time for the next legislative push for classifying an attempt to snatch a firearm as assault and battery. Didn't pass with Brewer but there's always a chance if could pass with Ducey?


Seriously, if the "wannabe cholos" haven't grown out of it by the time they hit 15, they're likely not "wannabes, they're the real thing. The knife idea is a sound one, and something that could be a foolproof backup if your strong side gets tied down trying to stop a gun grab (knives can't jam :p).
What are you, a democrat troll seeking more unnecessary laws? You don't need new legislation. The 'attempted snatch and grab' described by the OP is already a battery!
 
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Rusty Young Man

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Folders can and do jamb.
I was thinking of fixed blade knives when I posted. My bad. You are correct about folders.

What are you, a democrat troll seeking more unnecessary laws? You don't need new legislation. The 'attempted snatch and grab' described by the OP is already a battery!
Haven't even conversed with you and already you've resorted to name-calling. :rolleyes:

Alright, I'll play along with your little fantasy. Cite please.

Enlighten an Arizonan with your vast knowledge, that other members may also be enlightened.

Here is the link to the Arizona Revised Statutes. http://www.azleg.gov/arsDetail/?title=13

Please point out to me where the unlawful attempt to disarm a lawfully-armed citizen is considered battery.*
The closest I was able to find was ARS 13-1204
ARS 13-1204 said:
13-1204. Aggravated assault; classification; definitions

A. A person commits aggravated assault if the person commits assault as prescribed by section 13-1203 under any of the following circumstances:

1. If the person causes serious physical injury to another.

2. If the person uses a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

3. If the person commits the assault by any means of force that causes temporary but substantial disfigurement, temporary but substantial loss or impairment of any body organ or part or a fracture of any body part.

4. If the person commits the assault while the victim is bound or otherwise physically restrained or while the victim's capacity to resist is substantially impaired.

5. If the person commits the assault after entering the private home of another with the intent to commit the assault.

6. If the person is eighteen years of age or older and commits the assault on a minor under fifteen years of age.

7. If the person commits assault as prescribed by section 13-1203, subsection A, paragraph 1 or 3 and the person is in violation of an order of protection issued against the person pursuant to section 13-3602 or 13-3624.

8. If the person commits the assault knowing or having reason to know that the victim is any of the following:

(a) A peace officer, or a person summoned and directed by the officer while engaged in the execution of any official duties or if the assault results from the execution of the peace officer's official duties.

(b) A constable, or a person summoned and directed by the constable while engaged in the execution of any official duties or if the assault results from the execution of the constable's official duties.

(c) A firefighter, fire investigator, fire inspector, emergency medical technician or paramedic engaged in the execution of any official duties, or a person summoned and directed by such individual while engaged in the execution of any official duties or if the assault results from the execution of the official duties of the firefighter, fire investigator, fire inspector, emergency medical technician or paramedic.

SNIP...

9. If the person knowingly takes or attempts to exercise control over any of the following:

(a) A peace officer's or other officer's firearm and the person knows or has reason to know that the victim is a peace officer or other officer employed by one of the agencies listed in paragraph 10, subdivision (a), item (i), (ii), (iii), (iv) or (v) of this subsection and is engaged in the execution of any official duties.

(b) Any weapon other than a firearm that is being used by a peace officer or other officer or that the officer is attempting to use, and the person knows or has reason to know that the victim is a peace officer or other officer employed by one of the agencies listed in paragraph 10, subdivision (a), item (i), (ii), (iii), (iv) or (v) of this subsection and is engaged in the execution of any official duties.

(c) Any implement that is being used by a peace officer or other officer or that the officer is attempting to use, and the person knows or has reason to know that the victim is a peace officer or other officer employed by one of the agencies listed in paragraph 10, subdivision (a), item (i), (ii), (iii), (iv) or (v) of this subsection and is engaged in the execution of any official duties. For the purposes of this subdivision, "implement" means an object that is designed for or that is capable of restraining or injuring an individual. Implement does not include handcuffs.

SNIP...
Link
http://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/01204.htm



*An AzCDL (Arizona Citizens Defense League) bill was in the works last year (IIRC) to classify a gun grab attempt as aggravated assault. Why? Because it wouldn't hurt to have it codified into law that a bad guy trying to grab your gun isn't a joke, and that any person trying to use the "I was just joking/playing" defense would get a lesson about playing with guns.
 
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cocked&locked

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No more new laws

13-1203(A)(3)

A. A person commits assault by:

3. Knowingly touching another person with the intent to injure, insult or provoke such person.


As I said before, it is definitely a common-law battery (already covered by Az assault statute above); probably an attempted robbery; and, maybe even an attempted murder (need just a few more facts).

So why do you need the Az legislature to deal with a case like this?
 

dmatting

Regular Member
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May 25, 2011
Messages
441
Location
Durham, NC
Two video cameras, one facing forward, one covering your six. How about this, a hardhat with four cameras mounted to cover 360 degrees.

When a citizen is "eyeballing me" I ask them if I may be of assistance. I have yet to assist anyone who has been eyeballing me...they have left the area, every time.
There are 360 cameras now. I suggest mounting it on a small pole on top of the head with a chin strap to secure it.
 
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