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OT: Another Washington Kid Shot

Dave_pro2a

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You are correct. Mother is a Felon. That would also make the "boyfriend" culpable as he provided her the firearm (or at least access to it)

But there's no mention of charges related to felon in possession. The adults are charged with 3rd degree assault (felony class C). To quote the article:
Kitsap County Prosecutor Russ Hauge said he reviewed the evidence — the agony suffered by 8-year-old Amina Kocer-Bowman after she was shot in her East Bremerton classroom and the fact that the boy easily obtained a loaded gun from his mother’s home — and came to the conclusion that a traditional charge of reckless endangerment did not carry a sufficient penalty...

If convicted of third-degree assault, a class C felony, the two could each face up to five years in prison. According to state law, a person could be found guilty of third-degree assault if with “criminal negligence,” they cause “bodily harm to another person by means of a weapon or other instrument or thing likely to produce bodily harm.”

“The adults have the responsibility for the firearm,” Hauge said

So, that officer must also be charged with that same offense, since he did the same thing -- all but handed a loaded gun to a young child.

It doesn't matter that the first case involved dirt bag ex-con parents and the second case a virginal snow white cop -- the actions were equivalent, and the consequences of the cops actions were even worse.

In both cases it's about their actions resulting in the injury or death of another person. Criminal history should not matter, in regards to any "non gun possession" charges in this sort of case. LEO = ex felon.

If the parent of this recent victim is a virginal upright citizen, with no criminal history (but not an LEO), will he or she get the shaft or a pat on the back? Will we again see how hypocritical the system really is?

Now I could be wrong. Maybe felony charges will be filed against that LEO whose son killed his daughter with what was likely his gun. I'm not holding my breath over that.
 
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gogodawgs

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Another tragic child death; Is answer new law, or existing one?

…What were both men thinking when they left firearms that they both could legally carry on their persons, openly or concealed, in a vehicle with children? It is perfectly legal in Washington to carry a handgun, concealed if legally licensed, or openly…


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...child-death-is-answer-new-law-or-existing-one


This really is like a bad dream....

At a gas station in Tacoma at 12:30am and you leave you purposefully take your firearm off your person and leave it in the car?!! Even without children in the car this makes absolutely no sense to me, personally I would of made sure it was on my person if I am pumping gas in the city after dark!
 

OC for ME

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Wow, holy justification Batman.

And it wasn't an accident. It was negligence. It is negligent imho to leave a loaded firearm within easy access of young children, in a vehicle while they are unsupervised, especially in light of the fact one of them is now dead because of it. Not accidental -- negligence.

If that is an accident, then every crash caused by a person who is DUI is just an accident too, and they don't deserve harsh charges.
The discharge of the firearm was a 'accident' because the child could not be negligent. It was negligence that left the firearm in the car without adult supervsion present to prevent a kid for discharging the firearm. So, negligence, as i understand the term in legal cricles, means that the adults knew better. i do not believe this standard can be applied to the kid. I am not a lawyer so the negligence thinking could be way off.

I understand you angst at the adults. I agree that the adults are responsible and accountable. But, that does not address the children here and now. When the investigation is over and the state makes a decision one way or the other then we can break out the torches and pitchforks, or not.

In any event, even if it was mommy's gun, daddy should be the responsible one because he is a professional, a LEO, no excuses as far as he is concerned in my view. I'll stick with mommy being left alone to clean up the mess that is their children's lives.
 

Dave_pro2a

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In any event, even if it was mommy's gun, daddy should be the responsible one because he is a professional, a LEO, no excuses as far as he is concerned in my view. I'll stick with mommy being left alone to clean up the mess that is their children's lives.

So let's apply that same logic to a DUI charge against Mommy, if Daddy was in the vehicle. Give her a pass.

Or maybe murder, if Daddy was around and a LEO.

How about the wife of a 'normal' citizen? Would she get a free pass too?

As much as I dislike professional politicians, I'm coming to realize that most amateurs aren't much better. Everyone thinks that their own personally favorite kind of 'restrictions/regulations/morality' should be forced on their fellow citizens -- COTUS, and the rule of law be damned.
 

OlGutshotWilly

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But there's no mention of charges related to felon in possession. The adults are charged with 3rd degree assault (felony class C). To quote the article:

Per the front page article in this mornings Seattle Times: "Bauer and Chaffin........also were charged with unlawful possession of a firearm......as felons they are barred from owning firearms".

I'm sorry I don't have the link. I'm reading it from the paper in front of me. So this is in addition to the 3rd degree assault charges.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Per the front page article in this mornings Seattle Times: "Bauer and Chaffin........also were charged with unlawful possession of a firearm......as felons they are barred from owning firearms".

I'm sorry I don't have the link. I'm reading it from the paper in front of me. So this is in addition to the 3rd degree assault charges.

Seems more fair than the other charges imho -- especially since the initial LEO statement about the 3yo boy who just died was 'we anticipate no charges being filed.' And the odds that charges will be filed against that cop who let his daughter die are as close to absolute zero as they can go.
 
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Beretta92FSLady

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At a gas station in Tacoma at 12:30am and you leave you purposefully take your firearm off your person and leave it in the car?!! Even without children in the car this makes absolutely no sense to me, personally I would of made sure it was on my person if I am pumping gas in the city after dark!

When I get out of my car at 12:30 in the morning for anything, I re-holster, even if it's to pump gas. I re-holder because when I drive I keep my sidearm under my right thigh while driving. (Some might view that as a bad idea.)
 

gogodawgs

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When I get out of my car at 12:30 in the morning for anything, I re-holster, even if it's to pump gas. I re-holder because when I drive I keep my sidearm under my right thigh while driving. (Some might view that as a bad idea.)

Only if it is unsecured/loose, otherwise it's not a bad idea. If it is loose and you have to slam on the brakes or get in an accident a piece of steel being thrown around the cabin of a car is not a good thing.
 

Trigger Dr

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Try to get this into some sort of perspective.
1. Two children are DEAD.
2. One child is severly wounded.
3. Four sets of parents have direct responsibility for the injuries and deaths.
4. Justice will never be served as it should.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Try to get this into some sort of perspective.
1. Two children are DEAD.
2. One child is severely wounded.
3. Four sets of parents have direct responsibility for the injuries and deaths.
4. Justice will never be served as it should.

Agreed.
 

Beretta92FSLady

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Try to get this into some sort of perspective.
1. Two children are DEAD.
2. One child is severly wounded.
3. Four sets of parents have direct responsibility for the injuries and deaths.
4. Justice will never be served as it should.

Justice can never be served in any realm because it takes an unjust act to bring forth Justice. What we have is a Justice that by some appear to not go far enough, and by others, goes to far.

Ought the parents be charged with a crime, IMO, no. The terrible tragedy seared into their minds is sufficient.
 

GuidoZ

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It locks the slide when the safety bullet is actuated, as far as I can tell. A rod is then needed to remove it -- because your pistols extractor won't have enough force. That's the whole "selling feature." It's why the seller claims it creates safety.

They advise to place 1 in the chamber and 1 in the mag, according to the vid, in case a BG doesn't pull the trigger upon picking up the weapon, but rather cycles it to make sure it's loaded and then pulls the trigger.

So in theory it does do more than 2 snap caps, provided no one cycles the slide 3x ;)

That seems to be their theory anyways, and it's still a horrible idea imho...
That makes more sense, if it's the case. I looked again and they never mention a rod after firing with the safety bullet, but rewatching the video, it looks like it expands. Still... wow, just stupid! Instead of going for a rod, how about a trigger lock, or leave the mag out or something. *shakes head* Thanks for the clarification. We now return to your regularly scheduled programming... :cool:

--
Peace. ~G
 

PALO

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Seems more fair than the other charges imho -- especially since the initial LEO statement about the 3yo boy who just died was 'we anticipate no charges being filed.' And the odds that charges will be filed against that cop who let his daughter die are as close to absolute zero as they can go.

because the fact pattern is different

WA state , unlike many states, does not have laws that address the car situation.

it is IMO a complete moral failure, but the laws as written do not make the car incident criminally actionable.

if you can point out a case where a noncop was charged for leaving a gun in a car while their kid was in the car, and the kid shot himself/somebody, THEN your point would be valid
 

OC for ME

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So let's apply that same logic to a DUI charge against Mommy, if Daddy was in the vehicle. Give her a pass.
Non sequitur.

Or maybe murder, if Daddy was around and a LEO.
Another non sequitur.

Though, the kid is the one who shot his sister. To my knowledge the kid is not responsible under the law so he is free and clear from any legal sanctions.

Maybe one or both of the parents should be charged with a capital (or a near equivalent) crime based on your 'blind justice/equal treatment under the law' position. Maybe involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, or some other equivalent felony charge for one or both parents. It is possible that multiple felony and misdemeanor charges can be filed. We shall see.

I disagree with the premise regarding a 'blind justice/equal treatment under the law' legal system. Our current legal system has many problems to be sure, but the reality is that equal application of the law rarely occurs and I believe that most folks would hope that our current system remains as is.

I support our current legal system where the 'law' has the latitude to decide if any punishment is deserving, based on the facts and circumstances along with what the 'law' thinks is good for our society, within the confines of the law and legal precedent. If society disagrees with the law's decision then the law may adjust to meet society's expectations, next time, or not, depending on the facts and circumstances regarding the next incident.

mens rea

Realistically, we should all hope for both parents to get a pass, because I would wish to get a pass if this were to happen to me.

How about the wife of a 'normal' citizen? Would she get a free pass too?
I do not know if the wife 'would' get a free pass, but, if the circumstances and facts are nearly the same as the Marysville LEO incident, then yes, the wife should get a free pass.

As much as I dislike professional politicians, I'm coming to realize that most amateurs aren't much better. Everyone thinks that their own personally favorite kind of 'restrictions/regulations/morality' should be forced on their fellow citizens -- COTUS, and the rule of law be damned.
Politics may play a role in this situation, only time will tell. But, we are discussing what should happen to the parents from a legal perspective. All of the facts of this situation are not known, to me anyway. When the investigation is complete, and if LE decides to disclose all of the facts to the public, then we will know what avenue LE will take. Again, torches and pitchforks can be made ready for use if you do not agree with the law's decision.

Regardless of what LE will do, the mommy should get a pass. The daddy, a cop, should have known better, likely does know better, and must be extra vigilant where firearms and kids are concerned. If any sanctions are due the daddy deserves them. Though, tossing his backside in prison for some amount of time is not good for the family either. But, some folks like to pile on when they get the opportunity.

The rub is whether or not any sanctions that may be applied to daddy affect his employment. In this economy, life for the family could become significantly more difficult if daddy were to lose his job as a result of this incident. Contradictory? maybe, but, daddy sure don't deserve a promotion anytime soon either. Lose his job? Nope. Now, if he is known to be a rights-trampling-rogue-cop, then sorry, too bad, so sad.

On a side note. LE lectures we citizens on this issue constantly, yet, in this case a LEO does not follow 'his' own advice that he would undoubtedly give to us if he were investigating a similar incident involving a 'normal' citizen, like me.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Non sequitur.

Another non sequitur.

No, they are not. Because you literally said:

In any event, even if it was mommy's gun, daddy should be the responsible one because he is a professional, a LEO


So the wife of a cop should get a free pass because 1) she's a woman and 2) she's the wife of a cop.

No double standard there, nope. No apply that exact same logic/morality to other crimes.
 
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1245A Defender

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well,,,

because the fact pattern is different

WA state , unlike many states, does not have laws that address the car situation.

it is IMO a complete moral failure, but the laws as written do not make the car incident criminally actionable.

if you can point out a case where a noncop was charged for leaving a gun in a car while their kid was in the car, and the kid shot himself/somebody, THEN your point would be valid


It is illegal to leave a loaded gun in the car.. 9.41.050 look it up!
 

OC for ME

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No, they are not. Because you literally said:




So the wife of a cop should get a free pass because 1) she's a woman and 2) she's the wife of a cop.

No double standard there, nope. No apply that exact same logic/morality to other crimes.
Your DUI analogy does not apply, DUI is not a factor. Murder?

You are apparently desiring that the mommy be prosecuted along with the daddy. OK.

Even if it is the mommy's gun, daddy should have known better. Daddy's gun, well, he should have known better.
 

Dave_pro2a

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false. as long as the car is locked, and the gun is not in plain sight, it is entirely legal.

you have no idea what you are talking about

What are the odds that they locked their 2 kids into their car.

I'd say extremely close to zero. Of course, unless one of the parents admits it there's likely no proof.
 
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