Reach out to MPD?

[GLOCK21GB]

I think the MPD needs to reach out to us, not us to them. They are the ones guilty of not playing by the rules. Their own rules at that.

The idea reminds me of this quote...

“Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute,”

I know this thread is only trying to patch up a few differences, but I just can't go along with it.

This +100000000000000

 

[phred]

cops the tv show is not for the purpose of entertainment it's soul purpose is indoctrination of the masses into seeing rights violations and come to beleive this is lawful and acceptable behavior by leo"s , same goes for all the judge shows. I used to watch em until it hit me.

Amen to that. Too many times as I watch even prime time shows, I say "they (the police) can't do that, they can't do that either" However, the shows certainly prove the point that the police may and can lie.

 

[McX]

reach out to them??!!! they can go to hell! they scared me to death that they might shoot me, they violated my rights, forced me to produce i.d. and i'm still dealing with stress problems from this; i'm irritable, can't sleep, and struggle to get through the day, i WILL be filing a complaint against them! The police are out of control, they have no respect for the laws, the citizens, and the only loving caring cops you see are phony actors on tv!

 

[oldschool]

+10000


The video said we were wearing 'wires'. I recorded it with my Blackberry smart phone. I only turned on the recorder when they started demanding

Look at the other thread, listen to the recording, you will hear we did all we could to let them back away.

They escalated it. They arrested 2 of my friends and intimidated myself and 2 others.

They have a pattern of abusing peoples rights.

yeah like you guys were trying to entrap them by pointing out Jb vanhollens memo and the settlement Racine payed out.
using that thinking when the police have a prostitute sting they could identify them self's as police inform the potential johns of the charges they would face and then if the johns still went forward with the transaction they (the johns) would still have a defense of entrapment.

 

[Motofixxer]

It's always different when you are on the other side of the situation

 

[SAK]

I'm very disappointed by the police chief's actions. I spoke with him on the phone this morning, before I saw the news of possible charges of disorderly conduct, etc. Now they are saying they will charge. This is outrageous.

I was very upfront on the phone with Chief Wray, I was very disappointed to find this out afterwards. Hopefully we can keep a dialogue open. Very disappointing news today.

Here's a facebook group dedicated to Madison Police enforcing the law and not breaking the law:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152005354833550

 

[johnny amish]

reach out to them??!!! they can go to hell! they scared me to death that they might shoot me, they violated my rights, forced me to produce i.d. and i'm still dealing with stress problems from this; i'm irritable, can't sleep, and struggle to get through the day, i WILL be filing a complaint against them! The police are out of control, they have no respect for the laws, the citizens, and the only loving caring cops you see are phony actors on tv!

+100000 The only time you guys should be reaching out is when the MPD is handing you a large stack of Benjamins.

 

[Citizen]

SNIP I was very upfront on the phone with Chief Wray, I was very disappointed to find this out afterwards. Hopefully we can keep a dialogue open. Very disappointing news today.

Don't forget. North Korea kept a dialogue open the whole time they were still secretly developing a nuclear weapon. They also accepted oil-for-food shipments in exchange for not going ahead with nuke weapon development.

But, then they refused to talk once the US backed them into a corner with the six-party talks.

Some people only talk to deceive. And, shut up the instant it is no longer to their advantage to try to lie.

Oh, and both North Korea and Noble Wray are government actors. That should tell you something right there.

 

[TyGuy]

Amen to that. Too many times as I watch even prime time shows, I say "they (the police) can't do that, they can't do that either" However, the shows certainly prove the point that the police may and can lie.

I watch it and my wife and I play a game of responding to the police questions as someone should.

LEO: You don't have anything illegal in your car do you? You don't mind if I take a look?
Suspect: (knows he has crack in his car) Ummm, no, go ahead
My wife and I: Officer I do not consent to any search of my person, my belongings, or my vehicle.

It's amazing how often people give up their on cops when they KNOW that they have contraband.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

I posted this on ICarry, but I'd like to add it to the discussion here as well. It's an idea for discussion, nothing more.

The root cause of this incident may be overlooked. Some police officers still feel the need to engage peaceful open carriers. From where does this need arise, and what can be done to promote growth amongst the ranks?

Instead of a protest or any other reaction, how could we reach out to police? By and far the police have been extremely good at respecting our rights the past year. I know there are a few incidents, and they make me just as upset as you, but I know most of the time they behave admirably.

So, how can we compassionately reach out and try to correct this from happening again? Rather than reacting and doing the typical things we do, what could we all learn from this?

What are some ideas on things not tried before? Perhaps an event that police can attend with us? A meet-and-greet? A fundraiser benefiting a police organization and police cause? Let's get the ideas rolling.

Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is filing a federal lawsuit against the Madison Police Department.

We are fast-tracking this lawsuit.

Before the incident at Culvers we were already preparing to file another lawsuit in the next week or two for a previous incident with a different municipality from this past summer. As such, in consideration of those legal costs, we could use some contributions specifically for the "Madison 5" lawsuit.

If you would like to contribute to fund specifically the lawsuit for the "Madison 5" Culvers incident there is a you may contribute via our website.

www.wisconsincarry.org

Contributions from the donate button on the homepage will go specifically towards the federal lawsuit and also the attorney that will be retained if need be on behalf of the "Madison 5" to fight their unlawful DC charges.

Donations may be mailed to:

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
P.O. Box 270403
Milwaukee, WI 53227

Please indicate "Madison 5 lawsuit" on the memo field of the check

Carry On,

Nik Clark
Chairman/President - Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

 

[GlockMeisterG21]

Looks like we are reaching out to them, with the legal equivalent of a spec ops team.

SAK, I like your enthusiasm but leave this state to WCI. Perhaps if you focused more on what's going on down there then you may be able to get something done.

 

[Brass Magnet]

Now ^THAT^ is "reaching out" to the Madison Police Department! :exclaim:

Nik's post I mean.... GlockMeister snuck one in....

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

Now ^THAT^ is "reaching out" to the Madison Police Department! :exclaim:

I think lawsuits are compassionate! Compassionate to those who's rights are being violated. Compassionate to those who carry ALL over the state of Wisconsin but fear carrying in Madison because of an unlawful response by the Madison Police Department.

It appears some suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. Not WCI nor our members.

Carry On,

 

[Brass Magnet]

I think lawsuits are compassionate! Compassionate to those who's rights are being violated. Compassionate to those who carry ALL over the state of Wisconsin but fear carrying in Madison because of an unlawful response by the Madison Police Department.

It appears some suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. Not WCI nor our members.

Carry On,

I like the way you think Nik.
Any idea on if the JJO stuff will be availlable on the net to listen to?

 

[SAK]

Might be wise to separate our enemies (the political top brass type like Chief Awry) from our allies on the force.

I know there are a lot of police in Madison who are levelheaded, who DO care about rights, and who wouldn't have acted this way. I wish they would speak out more for us. Not all cops are bad.

I had hoped for a different solution, but I'd agree that filing suit is probably the best right now. They begged for it with the DC charges and that statement about everyone should call the cops if they see a gun, etc.

 

[Rbwhanson]

Cops shouldn't have to be educated, they are employed to uphold the law and nothing else. If that is the job then they should know the law inside and out even if they aren't lawyers.

Education needs to start with normal everyday citizens as most of the time you are stopped it is due to an uneducated everyday citizen.

 

[Rich B]

I know there are a lot of police in Madison who are levelheaded, who DO care about rights, and who wouldn't have acted this way. I wish they would speak out more for us. Not all cops are bad.

Well then it is surprising that they just happened to have at least five on one shift including a Sgt. that didn't care at all about these people's rights.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

I like the way you think Nik.
Any idea on if the JJO stuff will be availlable on the net to listen to?

discussing it tomorrow morning with Johnny and Greg on jjo.

Scheduled to discuss at 9am.

listen online at www.wjjo.com

 

[Citizen]

Cops shouldn't have to be educated, they are employed to uphold the law and nothing else. If that is the job then they should know the law inside and out even if they aren't lawyers.

+1. Well, almost. They would probably have trouble knowing all the law forwards and backwards. Even judges have to look it up. I might shift it just a little by saying that if cops are unsure of the law, they need to look it up before enforcing what they "think might be" the law. If a cop is not absolutely certain about the law, he has no business taking non-consensual enforcement action. Below is one of my all-time favorite quotes from a court opinion:

No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry vs Ohio.

No right. More sacred. More carefully guarded. Free from all restraint. All interference. Unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law.

It is noteworthy that a federal court recently quoted the same text. The case was St. John vs Alamagordo. An open carrier was illegally detained. The court gave summary judgement for the OCer. The favorable judgement gave the OCer leverage to gain a settlement from his harrassers for $20K.

Of course, little of this applies in the Culver 5 case. The cops knew OC was legal. There was no question these were just everyday citizens, not criminals. This is a case of law and freedom deliberately disregarded.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

Might be wise to separate our enemies (the political top brass type like Chief Awry) from our allies on the force.

I understand and generally agree with you. During the encounter, the Sargeant and one other officer seemed to be gung-ho about 'doing their job'. The others seemed to follow direction and did not talk to us about the specifics. In my gut, I believe that one or two of the officers, while not necessarily whole heartedly supporting our right to oc, at least thought MPD was handling it poorly.

I am not a mind reader, just some of the body language and vague statements some officers made.

I also wasn't there for the 1st and 2nd (maybe 3rd and 4th) officer to show up and didn't hear how it started but as soon as the 'supervisor' showed up, it was definitely not going to be a 'how, how are you' stop. We were going to cave to his will whether we handed him our ID under duress and threat of arrest of if they had to search us and illegally seize them.