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Red Robin informed me they are a "Gun Free" establishment at dinner tonight

ed2276

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
366
Location
Las Vegas,NV
I appreciate where you are coming from. It just kinda took me by surprise. He was talking about they are posting official info for employees about a policy change, and when I asked to see the corporate memo stating the change he said yes and then came back with these B&W printed images that I'm assuming came from Google images, and told me signs like this were going to be put up at each store. I just... I needed to make sure that he knew that a sign like this was not going to do any good. I'm of the opinion that I don't want them thinking that they can put up a sign and that does something, so I guess we're both on differing sides of there same end opinion, so to speak. :) I think that by making him think a sign does something, he'll feel empowered to put up a sign, which will maybe lead to another and another. Then when you start telling them the sign doesn't matter, maybe it's too late. Maybe there's enough of them that they go ahead and lobby to make signs carry weight of law here. I'd rather they just know that a sign does nothing to stop me from entering a property and state preemption specifically has my back on this. By emphasizing state preemption I hope he does go look at the info on the OC pamphlet and see that state preemption does allow me to carry wherever I please and decides it might be best to leave policies like this to the state legislature.

We're both using different means to an end, but both with the intention of ensuring that signs do NOT carry weight of law. I would never have ever told them "well.. there wasn't a sign..." or indicate signage would ever make a difference to me, I hope that impression was not given. :)
The thing about even mentioning the sign, and it having no effect until verbally being asked to leave, puts the suits on notice that they need to plug the holes in their policy, and how to do it. Now, they may modify their policy and have the local manager/staff look for OCers as they enter, and to ask them to leave before they even order.
 

ed2276

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
366
Location
Las Vegas,NV
I'm flabbergasted by all that. I am also very suspicious that the signs were taken off Google, particularly given the Arizona (I'm assuming) sign.

It would appear that this incident was spurred on by a visitor from California who is ignorant of Nevada's law (God-willing, we'll educate some tourists tonight!) and chose to impose an ill-conceived it in a very embarrassing fashion to a man treating his family to dinner.

I fail to understand why people have a problem with Americans who want to protect themselves. When I was still a little bit of a liberal California, I thought open carry was the right thing to do; everybody could see what you had. I figured out on my own it ought to be unregulated. Seems to me this was a case of knowing instinctually things were different in Nevada, but being totally ignorant of the law and culture.

Even from a business owner's perspective, understanding the local laws and culture are important. If none of the other patrons had a problem with OC, then why make a stink about it? Why offend a customer and lose business when you don't have to? It's offending us because someone else might be offended.

The law enforcement thing bugs me too. My own reply, when I want to (usually because of the ladies :lol:) is "I'm retired," which is half-true. A totally truthful response would be "Yes sir, I do have arrest powers." Or citizen's arrest.
"Can I see your credentials?"
"Well, I'd be happy to show you my driver license."

z28power, maybe Sierra Gold has a kids menu? :uhoh:
I wouldn't use this strategy when they ask if you are law enforcement. You could open yourself up to a charge of impersonating a police officer. You are answering in the context of "Are you law enforcement?" and your answers lead him to believe that you are saying you are law enforcement (a police officer) when you are not. Be very careful here.

When I was asked that question, I would answer that I used to be in California (I was a reserve police officer) but I am not law enforcement now. I was never asked to leave or told there was a no-firearm policy. After someone here wondered if they were still giving me special treatment because I was former LE, I decided I would not tell them I was former LE anymore; I would just answer, no. The next time I was asked if I am LE I told the salesman, no. He didn't say anything about leaving, and I just completed my business. I had a manager at Chase ask me if I am LE and I told him, no. He was just curious about me OCing and we had about a 5 min. conversation about OC and firearms in general.
 
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MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
..."In Nevada, signs do not have the force of law. If you like me to leave, I will, but by ignoring your sign, I did not commit a trespass or a crime."
I would be able to truthfully tell them I did not see their sign. This is Nevada, so I do not stop at the door and read every little thing posted. I don't need to look for the credit card stickers because I pay cash. I'm pretty sure I'll meet your dress code, too. I'm already not going to smoke, and I will figure out pretty quickly which way to pull/push the door. If you have a problem with inanimate objects, I guess you'll have to tell me like a big boy.

That said, if I know there is a sign or policy, the idiots don't get my money.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
I told z28power this in person, but I texted a friend who used to work at Red Robin in CA. As a California girl, she said it was BS, it's legal here, the sign thing is sketchy, and the guy was likely being a jerk!

I was shocked! I she knew this all on her own; her fiance never had to say anything about to her.

What mixture CA makes; too bad there aren't more like her there.
 

28kfps

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
1,533
Location
Pointy end and slightly to the left
I sent them an e-mail this is the response.

Danielle Hatfield <dhatfield@redrobin.com>

We appreciate your comments and feedback. Red Robin corporate company policy prohibits our Team Members, Guests and Vendors from possessing weapons on Red Robin premises regardless of whether or not the person is licensed to carry the weapon. The only exception to this policy is those individuals employed in local, state and federal law enforcement that are required to carry a weapon as part of their duty to protect and serve the public.
This policy has been in place for many years and there is no current plan to alter this policy. I assure you that your comments have been shared, and we do appreciate your feedback.

I did give them feedback letting them how they are making their facility more dangerous by having a rule that only the criminal will ignore among a few other words.
 

28kfps

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
1,533
Location
Pointy end and slightly to the left
Also received this reply.

We appreciate your comments and feedback. Red Robin corporate company policy prohibits our Team Members, Guests and Vendors from possessing weapons on Red Robin premises regardless of whether or not the person is licensed to carry the weapon. The only exception to this policy is those individuals employed in local, state and federal law enforcement that are required to carry a weapon as part of their duty to protect and serve the public.

This policy has been in place for many years and there is no current plan to alter this policy. I assure you that your comments have been shared, and we do appreciate your feedback.



Andy Mulz

Regional Operations Director

Red Robin Gourmet Burgers

amulz@redrobin.com

(951)764-0717
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
Well, darn. I liked their food. I ate there about once every month. No more! I'll start emailing them some receipts from Landry's and BJ's. I eat out a lot.
 

z28power

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
142
Location
Las Vegas
I got the exact same response. Too bad, in person he seemed more receptive. I guess his resolve is stronger over the internet than it was when confronted with a regular guy having a reasonable conversation with him face to face. Hrmph
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,623
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
In reply to post #26
And since the US Constitution in the Bill of Rights allows me those exact same Rights as you've clearly delineated for Leo's, why not me the legal and lawful carrier of a firearm who just wants to eat a fairly overpriced burger with friends and family?
 
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Bulleteater

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
49
Location
Nevada
Never eaten there, but I drive by that RR on Eastern all the time. I guess after reading this, I will keep on driving LOL.

Did some research and RR was founded in 1969 in Seattle, Washington, and now they're headquartered in Greenwood Village, Colorado...but for some reason this power-hungry regional mgr prints out a "no firearms" sign from Arizona, one of the most gun-friendly states in America? What's up with that?

Anyway, to me a good burger should be no more than 8 or 9 bucks, and come with fries and a drink. My guess is that RR is a little more pricey than that. I'll stick to T-Bird's which is right across the street from them, and they make a great burger that won't burn a hole in your wallet. I've never OC'd in T-Bird's so I don't know what their policy is. One of these days I'll have to test them out. I hope they're supportive, because I have plenty of receipts that I can zerox and send to RR, to show them where I'm spending my money.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Also received this reply.

We appreciate your comments and feedback. Red Robin corporate company policy prohibits our Team Members, Guests and Vendors from possessing weapons on Red Robin premises regardless of whether or not the person is licensed to carry the weapon. The only exception to this policy is those individuals employed in local, state and federal law enforcement that are required to carry a weapon as part of their duty to protect and serve the public.

This policy has been in place for many years and there is no current plan to alter this policy. I assure you that your comments have been shared, and we do appreciate your feedback.



Andy Mulz

Regional Operations Director

Red Robin Gourmet Burgers

amulz@redrobin.com

(951)764-0717
Ask them if private attorney generals are allowed...hehehe
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
This is what I sent the manager of RR and I also happened to find A TON of corporate emails. I BCC'd them all. z28power, I hope I'm not stealing your thunder, but the amateurishness of this guy's actions really ticked me off.

-Letter-

From one of my friends, I learned of a disturbing incident in one of your restaurants over the weekend. I’m sure you will recall it. I am extremely galled by your actions and attitude in this incident.

I would like to know exactly what Red Robin’s firearms policy is to accomplish. Do you honestly expect criminals to abide by the law? Will an unpublished ‘no guns’ policy truly keep the evil at bay? If you think so, that’s rather naïve. I gather someone beyond your pay grade is more concerned with phantoms of liability than reality and the safety of your customers. In just a handful of articles I could find online, Red Robin isn’t that safe of a place. I hardly think your ‘no guns’ policy is the crime deterrent your company might think it is.

http://cjonline.com/news/2013-09-12/feds-indict-two-topeka-men-armed-robbery-red-robin
http://www.havasunews.com/news/red-...cle_bb4979b4-6c52-5f8c-9eec-bb13d485de57.html
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/9750902/mb-restaurant-manager-arrested-for-staging-robbery
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crime/armed-robbery-reported-red-robin-gulf-coast-town-c
http://www.northfulton.com/Articles...-sub-Red-Robin-robber-strikes-in-Forsyth.html
http://archive.rgj.com/article/2008...lice-looking-man-who-robbed-Red-Robin-manager

You are ignorant of the law, ignorant of Nevada law and culture, and ignorant to the concerns of your customers. You were so intent on enforcing something that only you were offended by that you humiliated man in front of his family. You ruined a daughter’s special treat. To top it off, you apparently printed signs off the internet to bolster your position; signs from the wrong state.

Last Saturday night, about 15 of our members gathered together for dinner at a restaurant that had no problem with us protecting ourselves. We spend roughly $200 all together—that’s $200 that Red Robin did not get and won’t get.

Please be aware that your company’s ignorant and foolish policies coupled with your indifferent behavior caused this loss of business. It’s clear that Red Robin prefers its customers to be unarmed victims.
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,967
Location
Waco, TX
My little note

Mr. Mulz

As I now understand that you do not wish to have my business, I will certainly honor that wish. Even though I have never had a problem eating in your establishment with my wife, four kids, and my firearm, I will definitely take my business elsewhere. There are many local establishments that honor our right to self defense.

I might give you one tip however, take it or leave it as you wish, but I would not advertise the fact that your stores are defense free zones as not to attract the criminal element. You see, they don’t honor policies like yours.

Tim Low
Henderson NV
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
My letter to Mr Mulz:
me said:
I'm not a constant Red Robin customer, only was an occasional one, a few times per month, but unfortunately I've learned that I am no longer welcome.

I'm sure you've seen a few Emails recently from people I know, which is how I learned of your embarrassing treatment of a perfectly well-mannered guest who was armed for the protection of his family.

How is a man supposed to dine in the comfort of your establishment after being told he is not welcome there, and for a reason the defies all logic? Men who arm themselves to protect their family do not do so lightly, and are among the most civil of all men. We do not appreciate the confrontation at any level that comes from those who refuse to understand basic principles and duties of family heads in these modern times.

Indeed, only by your knowing you were dealing with a civil man could you confront and embarrass him for his choice to protect his family in a place where you are not willing nor able to do so.

I will respect your policy, even though I eat out very often and appreciate variety and the excellent service I received in the past at Red Robin. I will put restaurants such as Landry's, Market Street Grill, and BJ's into my rotation more often to replace the times that I had been going to your restaurants. They have expressly welcomed armed patrons, including those who more comfortably and civilly do so openly.

I've been openly carrying in the Las Vegas area for 22 years. I own two businesses, including one where I teach the firearms laws for NV and several other states. My students receive, as part of their course material, a list of establishments that are known not to welcome them. It is appropriate that you know I have added your chain of restaurants to the list.

I'm sure you know this, but most armed Nevadans choose to avail themselves of lawfully concealing their firearm to avoid being confronted by ignorant people, and policies such as yours. There is no requirement in Nevada to recognize posted signage. Based on the odds in Nevada, at any given time, you can be very certain there are 2 - 3 armed people in each of your restaurants, despite your policy. And as a general rule, the vast majority of armed civilians are safer and more competent with their firearms than the average police officer that you exempt from your policy.

I hereby offer you and your family a free one-day firearms safety, familiarity, and legal class. All you provide is the venue. If you choose to accompany me to a range, I will also provide firearms and safe personal instruction in their actual use. This class will also certify for the NV concealed weapons permit for those who chose to apply. As a veteran, instructor, open carrier, and competition shooter, I am well known in the firearms community for advocacy, competency, and accuracy in my teaching of the laws. I hope you will take me up on my offer, with absolutely no obligation that you work to change your policies.

Very respectfully,
 

Bulleteater

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
49
Location
Nevada
Here's a list of Red Robin's Top Brass, also info on their salaries and what they make on insider trading, if you're interested...

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=RRGB.O

Stephen Carley is the Director and CEO.

You can prolly copy all of them in your emails regarding this issue - just use their first initial and last name, seems to be the RR format. Make Andy Mulz sweat a little when he sees all these complaints are being CC'd to his corporate bosses.
 

z28power

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
142
Location
Las Vegas
Are the initials working? I'm forwarding my original email and a response to his canned template to them all.


Original Email said:
From: me
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 2:19 PM
To: Andrew Mulz
Cc: me
Subject: Follow-up from our conversation on Friday regarding firearm policy

Mr. Mulz,

Firstly, I want to thank you for your time on Friday evening while we were dining in your restaurant. I appreciated your candor and thank you for not being overly hostile, or trying to ram a policy down my throat while trying to have a meal with my family. You may remember me as the gentleman who was eating with his family while coincidentally armed with a safely holstered handgun on his hip.

As we discussed in the store, I just wanted to provide you with some additional information regarding Nevada and its hands-off approach to gun control. I hope you will take the time to read this, as I spent a portion of my own time reviewing and giving you factual sources to give you the information you stated you were interested in during our conversation at the Red Robin on Eastern Ave in Las Vegas.

As I mentioned, Nevada is one of the most gun-friendly states in the country. Think of us as the furthest west the wild west still goes, I suppose. We still have real cowboys in a large portion of our state, as you know virtually the entire state is rural with the exception of Clark County and Washoe County in the north (Reno/Carson City, etc.) Nevada has a long-standing “hands-off” approach when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms as specified in the Bill of Rights. The state legislature believes so much in the 2nd amendment, that it has specifically mandated in multiple sections of the Nevada Revised statutes, that NO state, local, or county government can legally infringe on our rights to keep, bear, and carry firearms, as this right is solely reserved for the State of Nevada government (and federal laws, of course, which basically only entails restrictions for felons, and School Zones.) NRS 244.364, NRS 268.418, NRS 269.222, NRS 407.0475(c)

As such, the general atmosphere in Nevada is extremely accepting of open-carry firearms. You may be surprised to hear that in my day-to day, I open carry on a regular basis for quite some time now. This is the first and only time I have ever had an issue dining in a restaurant such as yours while openly carrying my firearm. I was amazed that it was an issue at this particular restaurant because I have actually dined there many, many times(10-15) without issue while openly carrying my handgun.

Speaking of which, did you know that just by seeing that I’m openly carrying a handgun, you can statistically ensure that I am:
1) Not a felon
2) Passed a federal NICS background check to purchase my handgun
3) By wearing a holstered firearm, my weapon is secured from an accidental drop or discharge since the trigger mechanism is securely blocked from being pulled (thinking gun in the pants waistband)
4) I am actively deterring a potential criminal from causing trouble, as generally speaking these types of people will go for the soft or easy target. Furthermore, criminals intent on malice will typically hide their weapon until ready to use it.
These are things I can assure you cannot glean from a glance at any other diner in your restaurant (excepting perhaps LEO, which would ALSO be openly carrying!)

Any time that I have ever had interaction with the general public, it has been overwhelmingly positive. In general, Open carriers are overly friendly and polite. In order to ensure a positive experience with anybody I speak with, I am typically overly positive and give a positive demeanor when interacting while carrying my firearm openly to ensure people are comfortable with the idea, if they even notice.

I regularly dine out with friends and family, and I can say without hesitation Red Robin is (was?) one of our favorite places to visit. The atmosphere is upbeat and positive, and I have had very few bad services there. Just to drive the point home, I have attached some scanned receipts to this email. The very next day I hosted a party of 12 at a local restaurant across town that I knew to be Open Carry friendly so that I did not have another experience like I did on Friday. The competition is similar is price range and atmosphere to your establishment. It was inconvenient to relocate the event, but the twelve of us (all paying customers) felt welcome and secure at the venue we chose. The event was not specifically planned to go to Red Robin, but it was eliminated as a possibility for future visits without a change of policy. In fact, we actually were stopped by two large parties exiting the building that specifically stopped by our table and said how comfortable and safe they felt with twelve well-behaved, good spirited, people at the table next to them. (They didn’t even mention we were armed – but I’m sure it was noticed and not in a threatening manner.) With 12 weapons there at the same table, not a single one jumped out of the holster and fired upon any other patron of the restaurant. There were no uncomfortable confrontations, and it was a positive experience to balance out the weekend.

I know an argument you may have is that other patrons may feel uncomfortable if they see that I am carrying a gun. To them, I say that I feel uncomfortable being asked to leave a valuable piece of property such as my gun in my car, where it can be broken into a stolen. Now I have irresponsibly left a lethal weapon somewhere that could be used by somebody else (who would be willing to break into a car besides a malicious person after all) to do malice. Perhaps I should ask you to make them leave instead? However, I respect the 1st amendment just as much as the 2nd amendment and believe they have a right to their opinion and to voice it how they see fit. There are many things that make many people uncomfortable, as you know you cannot make every single person happy, unfortunately. Why then, should you stifle my rights? Because a single patron asked you to? This seems disproportionately inappropriate to me securely carrying a firearm in public. How does my inanimate object offend you?

I apologize if this email seems to ramble a bit. I have a lot I wish to convey and don’t want the email to seem overly dry so I am trying to show you examples of everyday life in Nevada while open carrying and emphasize that it simply is not a big deal here.

I urge you to reconsider this policy you are considering enforcing. Nevada is not California, and as such the culture and political atmosphere is simply different in many ways you may not even realize until you live here. Carrying a firearm in Nevada is simply that, it’s just carrying a firearm. There are many reasons people choose to carry a firearm. For me, I carry because in simplest terms, I want to ensure I come home to my family every single day. If I am with my family, I do it to ensure my family comes home with me. Perhaps in California I would not be this outraged, but I have chosen not to live in California, I live here for the freedom it provides me. At a minimum perhaps you should choose to enact this policy only in specific locales where the atmosphere warrants it? I do not feel Nevada is one of these states.

Even major retailers such as Target and Starbucks have NOT taken the stance you have chosen to. They have specifically stated that they will, regardless of their company’s stance on firearms, continue to follow state and local laws for firearm possession and carry. Which means even these companies have elected not to try infringing upon my right to openly carry a firearm if I want to give them my hard-earned money. After all, open carry of firearms is legal in 45 states! That’s a lot of alienation your policy will be garnering. As recent as last year, a major grocery store (Vons) reversed its decision locally to enact a policy that actively refused service to shoppers with firearms due to the political and financial consequences it brought to them.

I would encourage you to reach out to me with any other questions or concerns I failed to address, and would appreciate a response with you and your company’s decision moving forward in this area. As a citizen who regularly open carries, I have taken it upon myself to ensure I am extremely well-informed when it comes to federal, state, and local laws regarding firearms. I am active in a number of communities including a nationwide forum, OpenCarry.org, which has been interviewed and featured in national news publications as an authority for open carry information.

Overwhelmingly, people that choose to open carry are likely to be the most respectful, courteous, and responsible patrons you will encounter. If you are looking to stay well informed and knowledgeable in this area that can potentially affect your business in a positive (or negative) fashion, feel free to let me know if I need to clarify anything further.

I know I stated it, but feel it needed to be stated once more here as I thought perhaps you dismissed it immediately before: Posting a no-guns sign on your front door will only stop law-abiding citizens from carrying into your establishment. Do you truly thing the criminal intent on causing malice or committing a crime inside your establishment will see a sign (or be informed of a policy by you personally and then decide to turn around and go somewhere else to commit their crime? Obviously that question is rhetorical – we both know the answer is a resounding “No!”

If I haven’t given you too much to read and you want more, here’s a great cited academic article from a criminologist about the ineffectiveness of banning firearms to stop crimes: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

I look forward to hearing your response, and hope I will be welcome in your establishment once more in the near future! To ensure I receive the email during off-hours I’ve also CC’d my personal email address – feel free to message either one.

Sincerely,
Greg Russell
Canned response from Andrew Mulz said:
From: Andrew Mulz [mailto:amulz@redrobin.com]
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:38 PM
To: me
Cc: me
Subject: RE: Follow-up from our conversation on Friday regarding firearm policy

Hello,
We appreciate your comments and feedback. Red Robin corporate company policy prohibits our Team Members, Guests and Vendors from possessing weapons on Red Robin premises regardless of whether or not the person is licensed to carry the weapon. The only exception to this policy is those individuals employed in local, state and federal law enforcement that are required to carry a weapon as part of their duty to protect and serve the public.
This policy has been in place for many years and there is no current plan to alter this policy. I assure you that your comments have been shared, and we do appreciate your feedback.

Andy Mulz
Regional Operations Director
Red Robin Gourmet Burgers
amulz@redrobin.com
(951)764-0717
Latest Response by me said:
7/29/2014

Mr. Mulz:

I am disappointed to learn that a Regional Operations Director managing stores at the level you are within your company has resorted to using a pre-canned, template email response after a concerned patron writes you a thoughtful, well-worded and respectful email (that you requested I write), looking to inform and attempt to open dialog along the lines we discussed face-to-face in the Red Robin on Eastern Ave in Las Vegas on July 25th. It is a shame that an email that took a significant investment of time and research (quoting specific NRS statutes and examples), is answered with a 10 second, copy/paste job. This same template response was sent to many other members active in the enthusiast community here in Las Vegas and other areas.

Surely, if you get such a high volume of emails requesting a change in policy that a template is necessary, perhaps a review of this policy is in order. That would imply a large amount of lost revenue, would it not?

I can only discern from your lack of a thoughtful response, and misleading conversation you had with me in the restaurant, that you did not have time to inform any of your upper management executives into the amount of business you are losing in the Las Vegas area as of Friday. For your convenience, I’ve made sure to include the entire list of corporate officers to keep obviously inundated mailbox clean. Perhaps you can forward the remaining emails from patrons that are specifically avoiding your restaurant following Friday’s inappropriate handling of a man and his family (myself). I simply can’t take my family into a restaurant that not only denies me the right to keep them safe, but is now planning on openly advertising it on windows to the general public.

To all the Company Officers I have forwarded this to, I respectfully request you review my initial email sent to Andrew Multz (below) and note the response I received. It appears to be copy/pasted from a company-accessible source, as multiple others received the exact, verbatim response that I received. I am currently reviewing my stock portfolio and will be immediately selling any and all RRGB stocks currently held in any fashion.

Sincerely,

Greg Russell
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
We are making progress over there, but you'll have to sit through the dozens of the "conceal and carry on" crowd who won't care until the metal detectors go up.
 
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