SB 760,761,762 passed- 26 inch pistol length.

[detroit_fan]

Yes, i would have. Many other states made no changes to areas where one could carry. I do believ that if those in favor could have held out, we would have gotten a better law.


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Did you have a cpl before shall issue passed?

and please don't mistake me for a republican fanboy, i would have all libertarians in office if it was my choice.

 

[detroit_fan]

What is your problem? You make up all these ridiculous about me and think anyone who doesn't agree with you is against gun rights and are plain wrong. And please put me on your ignore list.

Edit to add: And please explain to me why you claim to be so pro gun and yet you are against constitutional carry? I realize you don't have to reply to this since well I'm a teenager and you're an adult who owns a business so you are better than me.

Just ignore everything he posts. makes the visits here much more pleasant.

 

[Super Trucker]

What is your problem? You make up all these ridiculous about me and think anyone who doesn't agree with you is against gun rights and are plain wrong. And please put me on your ignore list.

Edit to add: And please explain to me why you claim to be so pro gun and yet you are against constitutional carry? I realize you don't have to reply to this since well I'm a teenager and you're an adult who owns a business so you are better than me.

Since the other anti in this thread quoted you I read your drivel. What in the hell am I making up?????????????
You said "I DON'T THINK THEY'RE REALLY LOSING RIGHTS". Feel free to reread it, that is exactly what you said, I am not making anything up. How the hell in your mind is that making up anything ridiculous about you? I mean really?

I didn't see you explain how my losing the ability to do something I currently can do is well anything other then a loss. You are the all knowing college person, please enlighten me on how I am not losing something if this anti-gun bills gets signed into law? I mean you said you don't see how, so please tell me me how I am not losing something.

You say I'm not losing anything and you can vote, that is what scares the hell out of me.

I told you my thoughts on CC and you weren't bright enough to comprehend that either, which is why you went on the ignore list the first time. Not 2 days after I took you off I read that you say nobody is losing rights when a damn 2nd grader can see you are wrong.
You and detroit fan continue with your Brady like anti-gun rights campaign.

As far as being better then you, I never said that. Maybe your parents never told you the old saying "Never Listen to Anybody Worse Off Than You"? What I will say is that I don't pay much attention to anybody with less life experience then myself. That would just be stupid. My oldest daughter is one year younger then you, I know she has great intentions but doesn't really have a clue, when she thinks she knows what is best for the world.
The difference is she is smart enough to listen.

When you more then indifferent about my rights being taken away I might at least hear what you say, until then.............

Now I have to take you off the list because I will enjoy seeing you explain this one.


ETA: You question my being progun because I am not wanting something you do not already have that I personally don't think is a good idea (meaning you lose nothing you don't already have), after you post you couldn't care any less (I am indifferent) if WE LOSE something we already have. This is what I am taking about about you not having a clue.
As I told you before if something for CC comes up and there are ZERO counter productive terms to it, I don't have a problem with it, I am almost positive that won't happen so I am not for it.

 

[Super Trucker]

Just ignore everything he posts. makes the visits here much more pleasant.

Still not big enough to admit you are wrong, what a shame.

overall i'm of the same feeling as xmanhockey7, i'm pretty indifferent on it, i just think that getting another class of firearms removed from the registration is a small step. i would rather have small steps than no steps.

Too bad that you don't want to accept forward steps, because a bill where you lose something is a useless bill.

 

[DrTodd]

Did you have a cpl before shall issue passed?

and please don't mistake me for a republican fanboy, i would have all libertarians in office if it was my choice.

No, I didn't have one.

I understand your point. And no, I am not mistaking "you for a republican fan boy". Rather, I would say that you are just like most people: you see the good of the legislation for some. I would also imagine since you don't currently possess a "Michigan pistol" nor have you probably had the inclination to own one at some time in the future, you see the legislation as neutral regarding your situation.

My problem is two fold.
First, the notion that people hold which believes "it doesn't effect me so I don't care" is how various "bad" laws get enacted. People fail to consider the worst-case scenario... that it may effect them at some point in the future.
Second, and most important, is that this legislation will be used as "proof" that some legislator is "pro 2A" when in reality, it really is quite feeble, no matter how you look at it. We now have a Republican senate, a Republican House, and a Republican governor. These people were elected by gun owners in the belief that they would support the right to keep and bear arms. We are half-way through a legislative session and this is the best we could have expected? How disheartening to think that people who were elected by gun owners based upon implicit promises to expand our rights have done absolutely nothing to eliminate the most onerous restrictions. And once again, this is the best we can do? If those we elected truly supported our freedom to carry they would have gotten rid,or at least seriously considered eliminating, the CEZ's, registration, and at least considered constitutional carry. I have seen nothing that indicates these issues are even on the horizon. Basically, we have gotten the shaft from people who have purported to support the right to carry.

 

[detroit_fan]

No, I didn't have one.

I understand your point. And no, I am not mistaking "you for a republican fan boy". Rather, I would say that you are just like most people: you see the good of the legislation for some. I would also imagine since you don't currently possess a "Michigan pistol" nor have you probably had the inclination to own one at some time in the future, you see the legislation as neutral regarding your situation.

My problem is two fold.
First, the notion that people hold which believes "it doesn't effect me so I don't care" is how various "bad" laws get enacted. People fail to consider the worst-case scenario... that it may effect them at some point in the future.
Second, and most important, is that this legislation will be used as "proof" that some legislator is "pro 2A" when in reality, it really is quite feeble, no matter how you look at it. We now have a Republican senate, a Republican House, and a Republican governor. These people were elected by gun owners in the belief that they would support the right to keep and bear arms. We are half-way through a legislative session and this is the best we could have expected? How disheartening to think that people who were elected by gun owners based upon implicit promises to expand our rights have done absolutely nothing to eliminate the most onerous restrictions. And once again, this is the best we can do? If those we elected truly supported our freedom to carry they would have gotten rid,or at least seriously considered eliminating, the CEZ's, registration, and at least considered constitutional carry. I have seen nothing that indicates these issues are even on the horizon. Basically, we have gotten the shaft from people who have purported to support the right to carry.

I was planning on a mossberg 500 for vehicle carry this year actually, but I have not bought it yet. However, I don't subscribe to the "it doesn't effect me so I don't care" philosophy either. I see this bill as eliminating another class of weapons from registration, and I think that is very important. What I would like to see is this bill passed and another bill permitting loaded long gun carry in vehicles pass too. IMO the effort of some to kill this bill would be better spent promoting a loaded long gun carry in vehicles bill. That way people could carry any gun, not just some "special class" of guns that only exists in michigan.

I really don't care about "proof" from these guys, I know they all have their own agenda's and I just try to look at overall firearms support come election time. Anyone that takes a vote on a bill like this as proof needs to do more research imo.

As for he currents repubs in office here, I really don't remember snyder ever saying anything really pro2A. Has he came out in support of any pro-gun bills yet? Maybe our legislators are not passing anything because they know he will not sign it (just a thought, no evidence).

 

[stainless1911]

Pass, another, bill? This legislature? Um, the only thing they have really done, is make it ok to challenge someone to a duel. I really dont see anything good coming out of this bunch of bureaubrats.

 

[detroit_fan]

Pass, another, bill? This legislature? Um, the only thing they have really done, is make it ok to challenge someone to a duel. I really dont see anything good coming out of this bunch of bureaubrats.

That's not true, they have passed a ton of bills, just not 2A related. Whether you see those bills as good or bad will depend on your views on economics. Let's not kid ourselves, michigan is/was in bad shape when granmole left, they have had their hands pretty full with trying to change michigans business climate. Now I realize they wasted time on stupid stuff like anti-bullying laws, but they have done a lot of major stuff too, welfare reform ect... Do I think they have had more than enough time to pass some pro2a legislation, yep, but to say all they have passed is a dueling law is a bit silly. Like I said, do we even know if snyder would sign a cez repeal? how about a bill to end registration? Do you have any quotes of him speaking about such issues?

 

[stainless1911]

Rights are more important than money.

As far as Snyder goes, who knows?

 

[detroit_fan]

Rights are more important than money.

As far as Snyder goes, who knows?

Yes, they are. But what good does being able to carry a "michigan pistol" do if you have no job to buy a car to carry it in. What good is home defense without a job to pay for the house. While rights are more important, we need money too.

The snyder issue needs to be addresses imo. everyone is always complaining about our legislature not passing anything, maybe it's because he has told them he won't sign anything. i don't know, but considering michigan voted for the most "moderate" of the gop candidates maybe gun rights is something he does not care about at all. that's the feeling i get anyways.

 

[stainless1911]

I think you're right about Snyder.

As for the money though, I pick up pop cans on the side of the road and until a couple days ago, out of the garbage at the mall, or some odd job just to make a layaway payment on a gun. You dont need a job to own a gun, you may need to swallow some pride, and exercise some relentless persistence, but If I can do it, anybody can. I've paid for several firearms that way, as well as a very nice reloading set.

It annoys me a bit, when people dont get a CPL or a gun because they claim not to have the money.

 

[DrTodd]

Yes, they are. But what good does being able to carry a "michigan pistol" do if you have no job to buy a car to carry it in. What good is home defense without a job to pay for the house. While rights are more important, we need money too.

The snyder issue needs to be addresses imo. everyone is always complaining about our legislature not passing anything, maybe it's because he has told them he won't sign anything. i don't know, but considering michigan voted for the most "moderate" of the gop candidates maybe gun rights is something he does not care about at all. that's the feeling i get anyways.

Since this is a forum about open carry, discussions here should, I believe,focus on just that... and since OC in MI is "enhanced" with a CPL, discussing CPL issues is tangentially germane. The economic issues, while important in general, are too distant from the stated goals of this website for me to say anything other than the republican policies enacted this session have personally cost me thousands of dollars.
However, getting back to the topic, I feel that an opportunity to change the way things are regarding firearm rights is quickly passing with no forseeable change in the future. If they claim that they have no time because of the other issues taking precedence, so be it. However, they obviously had time to at least discuss this bill. So, instead of discussing actual change, they instead spend time on this drivel. I'd rather they spend time doing substantive work instead rather than spend time on bills that do next to nothing to advance freedom. Letting this opportunity pass just shows me that the current party takes the gunowners vote for granted. If not now, when do you propose would be better?
Yes, Snyder has never claimed that he wants to expand gun rights. But to not even have the discussion in either the MI senate or house so that we can truly see where people fall on the continuum shows me that the the current leaders are not interested in doing anything regarding firearms in Michigan.

 

[stainless1911]

Since this is a forum about open carry, discussions here should, I believe,focus on just that... and since OC in MI is "enhanced" with a CPL, discussing CPL issues is tangentially germane. The economic issues, while important in general, are too distant from the stated goals of this website for me to say anything other than the republican policies enacted this session have personally cost me thousands of dollars.

I feel that the politicians are just using the economy as an excuse not to get into the always controversial gun rights issue, therefore making it relevant to the discussion.


A good reason to support a one term limit to any office.

 

[detroit_fan]

Since this is a forum about open carry, discussions here should, I believe,focus on just that... and since OC in MI is "enhanced" with a CPL, discussing CPL issues is tangentially germane. The economic issues, while important in general, are too distant from the stated goals of this website for me to say anything other than the republican policies enacted this session have personally cost me thousands of dollars.
However, getting back to the topic, I feel that an opportunity to change the way things are regarding firearm rights is quickly passing with no forseeable change in the future. If they claim that they have no time because of the other issues taking precedence, so be it. However, they obviously had time to at least discuss this bill. So, instead of discussing actual change, they instead spend time on this drivel. I'd rather they spend time doing substantive work instead rather than spend time on bills that do next to nothing to advance freedom. Letting this opportunity pass just shows me that the current party takes the gunowners vote for granted. If not now, when do you propose would be better?
Yes, Snyder has never claimed that he wants to expand gun rights. But to not even have the discussion in either the MI senate or house so that we can truly see where people fall on the continuum shows me that the the current leaders are not interested in doing anything regarding firearms in Michigan.

I don't really disagree with you, I wish they would take it up too. But I do also understand that our elected reps are not in Lansing just to deal with 2A issues. That said, I do believe they have had ample time to deal with at least some of our concerns, and shame on them for not doing it. Back in november I contacted my State Senator- Randy Richardville asking about progress on campus carry legislation, which is something he has been vocal about supporting. His reply was-

I am still working with my colleagues on changing the laws in regards to concealed weapons. While there won’t be legislation passed on this issue by the end of the year, we are making it a priority for 2012. It is a very important issue for myself and many others in my caucus. I appreciate your continued interest in this matter.

Best,
Senator Richardville


Now I am not holding my breath, but hopefully his mention of 2012 will lead to some good things actually getting done. If not, it is an election year....

 

[Super Trucker]

What is your problem? You make up all these ridiculous about me and think anyone who doesn't agree with you is against gun rights and are plain wrong. And please put me on your ignore list.

Edit to add: And please explain to me why you claim to be so pro gun and yet you are against constitutional carry? I realize you don't have to reply to this since well I'm a teenager and you're an adult who owns a business so you are better than me.

Since the other anti in this thread quoted you I read your drivel. What in the hell am I making up?????????????
You said "I DON'T THINK THEY'RE REALLY LOSING RIGHTS". Feel free to reread it, that is exactly what you said, I am not making anything up. How the hell in your mind is that making up anything ridiculous about you? I mean really?

I didn't see you explain how my losing the ability to do something I currently can do is well anything other then a loss. You are the all knowing college person, please enlighten me on how I am not losing something if this anti-gun bills gets signed into law? I mean you said you don't see how, so please tell me me how I am not losing something.

You say I'm not losing anything and you can vote, that is what scares the hell out of me.

I told you my thoughts on CC and you weren't bright enough to comprehend that either, which is why you went on the ignore list the first time. Not 2 days after I took you off I read that you say nobody is losing rights when a damn 2nd grader can see you are wrong.
You and detroit fan continue with your Brady like anti-gun rights campaign.

As far as being better then you, I never said that. Maybe your parents never told you the old saying "Never Listen to Anybody Worse Off Than You"? What I will say is that I don't pay much attention to anybody with less life experience then myself. That would just be stupid. My oldest daughter is one year younger then you, I know she has great intentions but doesn't really have a clue, when she thinks she knows what is best for the world.
The difference is she is smart enough to listen.

When you more then indifferent about my rights being taken away I might at least hear what you say, until then.............

Now I have to take you off the list because I will enjoy seeing you explain this one.


ETA: You question my being progun because I am not wanting something you do not already have that I personally don't think is a good idea (meaning you lose nothing you don't already have), after you post you couldn't care any less (I am indifferent) if WE LOSE something we already have. This is what I am taking about about you not having a clue.
As I told you before if something for CC comes up and there are ZERO counter productive terms to it, I don't have a problem with it, I am almost positive that won't happen so I am not for it.

I am waiting still?

 

[Super Trucker]

I was planning on a mossberg 500 for vehicle carry this year actually, but I have not bought it yet. However, I don't subscribe to the "it doesn't effect me so I don't care" philosophy either. I see this bill as eliminating another class of weapons from registration, and I think that is very important. What I would like to see is this bill passed and another bill permitting loaded long gun carry in vehicles pass too. IMO the effort of some to kill this bill would be better spent promoting a loaded long gun carry in vehicles bill. That way people could carry any gun, not just some "special class" of guns that only exists in michigan.

I really don't care about "proof" from these guys, I know they all have their own agenda's and I just try to look at overall firearms support come election time. Anyone that takes a vote on a bill like this as proof needs to do more research imo.

As for he currents repubs in office here, I really don't remember snyder ever saying anything really pro2A. Has he came out in support of any pro-gun bills yet? Maybe our legislators are not passing anything because they know he will not sign it (just a thought, no evidence).

Wouldn't it make sense to get a bill passed that allows any gun carry/long gun carry however you want to word it, prior to eliminating the ability to carry a long gun by passing this one first?