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Second time open carrying- ARRESTED!!!

mspgunner

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Ellisville, Missouri, USA
Brett, did you ever consider a public or written (to the MPD) apology for talking about shooting them??

Maybe you could explain your frustrations and share some of your stories, and people could grow and move beyond this crap?

I don't want to be at odds with the cops - who are just people like you and I - and it obviously hasn't helped you either.

Perhaps you write a letter or make a call to a news station...just an idea.

One thing for sure, if nothing is done to stop this Maplewood thing, the dominos will fall across the County and OC will be dead as a door nail. Here we preach tot he choir, will anyone present a civil alternative to the City of Maplewood?
 

cash50

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
349
Location
St. Louis
On a related note, Brett might lead the charge to have a positive impact in Maplewood too.

There are a number of ways to achieve this, but basically making an effort to show you're a good guy can go a long way.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
So you either have the worst bad luck of anyone I've ever even heard of, or your baiting. I have not even had to talk to the cops in over 15 years, how does all this stuff happen to YOU ALL THE TIME ?

Somethin' don't sound right ....:uhoh:

How is he baiting? He is either breaking the law or he is not. If he's not breaking the law and the LEOs leave him alone, then most of those contacts would not have taken place.
 

Deepdiver36

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
65
Location
Utah
How is he baiting? He is either breaking the law or he is not. If he's not breaking the law and the LEOs leave him alone, then most of those contacts would not have taken place.

If the world was only this black and white!
 
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DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
If the world was only this black and white!

The world is that black and white, with regard to what police can do here in the US. SCOTUS and other courts have incrementally defined and placed limits on police power over time. Police stops, detentions, searches, seizures, questionings, arrests, etc. are VERY well defined and regulated with boundaries established by courts.
 

Festus_Hagen

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
490
Location
Jefferson City, Mo., ,
The world is that black and white, with regard to what police can do here in the US. SCOTUS and other courts have incrementally defined and placed limits on police power over time. Police stops, detentions, searches, seizures, questionings, arrests, etc. are VERY well defined and regulated with boundaries established by courts.

Then this needs to go to court ASAP . No sense in letting a cut and dry case go to waste . I'll keep an ear out for the outcome. :)
 

Deepdiver36

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
65
Location
Utah
The world is that black and white, with regard to what police can do here in the US. SCOTUS and other courts have incrementally defined and placed limits on police power over time. Police stops, detentions, searches, seizures, questionings, arrests, etc. are VERY well defined and regulated with boundaries established by courts.

Things can get grey in a hurry. There are exceptions and judgment calls written into the law all over the place. We all know that when we OC that we might get a MWAG call. The reality is that not everyone is comfortable with guns or know the law. Even if they did know the law, that does not take away the discomfort level. We are brainwashed from the time we are one to call the police when we need help. I do not like the MWAG call anymore then you do but, it is not a perfect world.

We all understand that when someone calls the police they are obligated to respond. Some agencies are more calm about this and will just observe where, at the other end of the spectrum, they deploy SWAT and a helicopter. It is just luck of the draw. Some officer will simply handle it better then others.

So what I am confused about is why anyone is surprised and arse hurt when they OC and get a MWAG call. We should just expect it. IMHO, our job at that point is to be courteous and professional and do our best to educate as many officer and citizens as possible. Anything short of that can do more harm then good. Again, this is all just my humble opinion.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
We all understand that when someone calls the police they are obligated to respond. Some agencies are more calm about this and will just observe where, at the other end of the spectrum, they deploy SWAT and a helicopter. It is just luck of the draw. Some officer will simply handle it better then others.

So what I am confused about is why anyone is surprised and arse hurt when they OC and get a MWAG call. We should just expect it. IMHO, our job at that point is to be courteous and professional and do our best to educate as many officer and citizens as possible. Anything short of that can do more harm then good. Again, this is all just my humble opinion.

I won't go so far as request a cite for the above "obligated to respond", but I will suggest to you that it is more a matter of leadership with the LEA and local governing body. Many (most) MWAG calls could be resolved through either the dispatcher getting info on the conduct observed or a drive check out by an officer.

No stop, no detention, no ID, no unpleasantness is needed, I daresay 99% of the time. And yes I expect to not be so inconvenienced - I seldom am. That is the result both of the political climate here and the steadfast efforts of many.

"Our job" is to protect our rights and expand them where we can. Our methods are polite, professional articulation of the facts ..... and when necessary filing complaints or taking the matter before the courts. Anything less than that is taking a step backwards.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
We all understand that when someone calls the police they are obligated to respond. Some agencies are more calm about this and will just observe where, at the other end of the spectrum, they deploy SWAT and a helicopter. It is just luck of the draw. Some officer will simply handle it better then others.
Warren vs DC says otherwise.
 

MK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
396
Location
USA
Brett, did you ever consider a public or written (to the MPD) apology for talking about shooting them??

Maybe you could explain your frustrations and share some of your stories, and people could grow and move beyond this crap?

So you are just assuming that his (chosen, cut and presented) words defined an intent to shoot police due to some kind of grudge he has against them?

I would think first and foremost, before admitting anything as crazy as that, is to see the whole video, unedited and see what context his actual sentence(s) were taken from in the first place.

I could see alot of people talking about how they could have shot a cop, even other cops and then cut out of context could easily be made to appear as if there was some type of intent involved driven by emotion.

A police officer could be telling someone on tape a story as to how they almost shot their own partner, and though the circumstances would have been accidental all the media has to take from his story is "I could have easily shot him based on what he was doing." Couple that cut with a cut of that same officer yelling at someone on the street and it looks like the dude is a ticking time bomb ready to kill anything he comes in contact with. I could think of several different scenarios where someone could make the statement, "I could have easily shot them." such that within the entire context, no real alarm would be raised. If a police officer forced open your bedroom window in the middle of the night and climbed in it without identifying himself, don't you think you could shoot a police officer in that scenario?

In this scenario at Wal Mart, Brett is right. He could have shot at the officers and so could a dozen other armed people within that store if they were the kinds of people who would take that action. What you are assuming and what the clip is trying to lead you to believe is that Brett is actually that kind of person. If the police were worried most about their safety, they don't show it by casually walking up to or calling over an armed person of interest without at least having drawn their weapon first. I could see how that could be part of the explanation as to why the excuse of officer safety isn't exactly crystal clear in this particular situation by mentioning that their actions under different circumstances could have very well lead to them being shot. To me, its obvious the police approached him feeling extremely comfortable in the presence of an open carrier, knowing there is very little to no history to suggest that open carriers are actually a bonified threat to their safety and his conversation within the jail could have very well been explaining that situation logically to another person for all we know right now without having the luxury of seeing the entire conversation as the media and the police both had access too.

There is good reason to question why only very small parts of that tape were released as opposed to the whole thing. In my opinion, it was to fit an agenda, to craft a story that wasn't there to begin with.

I think before any potential wrong confessions are to be made and responsibility be acknowledged for an act that might not even have existed in the first place, Brett needs to get that entire video to refresh himself with it. It could very well be possible that the TV station and the police department releasing it or parts of it are the ones that owe him an apology.
 

MK

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
396
Location
USA
You know, another thing I wouldn't put past some in LE, knowing they have a high profile guy like Brett in a cell and that they may have fudged up yet again, is to do whatever they can to discredit him. Heck, I read some internet messege board material written by some in LE in response to one incident involving Brett where they were talking about taking the kid out. They already had one guy caught on tape threatening to falsify and make up bogus charges against him.

I think the rest of the tape could help explain alot. I am not asking to see it or to have it made public for my own personal curiosity as that's Brett and any legal advisor of his to be making but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that other person in the cell could have helped mold and shape the conversation and even been strategically placed there as happens many times with other people who have informants and snitches placed in their cell.

Maybe, maybe not, but if so, I wouldn't be surprised. Sometimes some departments put a little extra effort into circling the wagons and taking an offensive approach to damage control if they feel they fudged up.
 

Deepdiver36

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
65
Location
Utah

I do not wish to hijack this thread anymore then I have so I will just say this and then let it go. I have found you very rarely can change peoples minds on these things.

In regards to Warren V DOC. No where in this case does it indicate that a law enforcement agency has no obligation to respond to calls in progress. This is their fundamental purpose. Obviously, this unfortunate tragedy was mishandled by a dispatcher(s) and then again by the responding officers. The court simply found that police could not be held financially liable for a crime they failed to prevent nor did they commit.
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
I The court simply found that police could not be held financially liable for a crime they failed to prevent nor did they commit.

Actually the raw interpretation is "they have no duty to respond" which means for a variety of reasons they can do literally NOTHING, you are not going to find many LEO's that think on that level at all and frankly that is the opposite of why most became LEO's if not 100%.

That does not change it though and I think if you polled LEO's you would have a 100% vote that is one of the stupidest things ever done as they regularly put themselves in harms way trying to remove the criminal element.
 

Deepdiver36

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
65
Location
Utah
Actually the raw interpretation is "they have no duty to respond" which means for a variety of reasons they can do literally NOTHING, you are not going to find many LEO's that think on that level at all and frankly that is the opposite of why most became LEO's if not 100%.

That does not change it though and I think if you polled LEO's you would have a 100% vote that is one of the stupidest things ever done as they regularly put themselves in harms way trying to remove the criminal element.

"By a 4-3 decision the court decided that Warren was not entitled to remedy at the bar despite the demonstrable abuse and ineptitude on the part of the police. The court held that official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for a failure to provide adequate police protection"
 

cash50

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
349
Location
St. Louis
So you are just assuming that his (chosen, cut and presented) words defined an intent to shoot police due to some kind of grudge he has against them?

Absolutely not. If there's a profession I don't trust it's a journalist. And carnie's but that's another barrel of monkeys.

I assume that's what almost everyone watching the news took it as though.
 

ChiangShih

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
628
Location
KC
...yet the cops treat me like a criminal and have a hard-on for nailing me.

Whoa, there buddy. Thats a pretty bold accusation. If they touched you inappropriately you should talk to an attorney quick.
 
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peterarthur

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Messages
613
Location
Phoenix, AZ
You know, another thing I wouldn't put past some in LE, knowing they have a high profile guy like Brett in a cell and that they may have fudged up yet again, is to do whatever they can to discredit him. Heck, I read some internet messege board material written by some in LE in response to one incident involving Brett where they were talking about taking the kid out. They already had one guy caught on tape threatening to falsify and make up bogus charges against him.

I think the rest of the tape could help explain alot. I am not asking to see it or to have it made public for my own personal curiosity as that's Brett and any legal advisor of his to be making but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that other person in the cell could have helped mold and shape the conversation and even been strategically placed there as happens many times with other people who have informants and snitches placed in their cell.

Maybe, maybe not, but if so, I wouldn't be surprised. Sometimes some departments put a little extra effort into circling the wagons and taking an offensive approach to damage control if they feel they fudged up.

Please cite the source for this threat by an LEO.
 

lancers

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
231
Location
St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Please cite the source for this threat by an LEO.

http://thenewspaper.com/news/19/1967.asp

Trust me, an overwhelming majority of officers in the area know who I am. In the current thread going on about me on the County Police forum:
http://members5.boardhost.com/COUNTYBROWN/msg/1301092105.html

"...Do not misunderstand me. I am not defending this clown or others like him. I just want us to put him in his place legally, not clutching at straws that will break under the pressure and making him look good, and us bad, in the eyes of the media. Let's find a charge that will hold up and arrest him for that charge."

Why? Because I want to exercise my rights? The worst thing I have even been convicted of is a speeding ticket and that will hopefully be overturned by the judges in the Court of Appeals soon. Are there not enough criminals to go after that they instead have to show me who's boss?
 
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