• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Showing ID to police

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
Code:
You have a very good point. All I am saying is that if I was I was stopped by law enforcement I would rather be on my way as fast as I can and I wouldn't want to escalate the situation and create hostility. Do I think police have any right to stop a law abiding citizen? Hell no. But the last thing I want is some ill-informed cop to think I'm a threat and tackle me to the ground or shoot me.
First, are you on FOOT or are you driving? I don't always have an ID when I'm on foot, do you? If not, then what? You're TEACHING the cops they can stop you on foot and get your ID.

Would you be OK if -I- stopped you and asked for your ID? I mean -I- want to know who I'm dealing with. What possible harm could come from it?

By the way the LEO doesn't JUST want to SEE your ID. He wants to hold it. THEN it become a problem for you because you CAN'T leave until you get it back.

HTH
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
Anytime a police officer asks you for an ID they have just insulted you. Simply because there is no reason to see ID of law abiding citizens whether carrying or not. If an officer wants an ID it means they are either fishing, or insinuating you have done something wrong, and need to submit to a search. That is what an ID request is, it is a search. We are protected from such a search in NC due to US V Black.
Possible flow of conversation (I don't use the term RAS with them as they seem ignorant of the accronym)

Cop: Can I see some ID please
Me: Am I being detained, Officer?
Cop: At the moment, yes.
Me: probably cause?
Cop: You have a gun.
Me Not valid probable cause as per US v Deberry, which states the bearing of arms is not sufficient reason to be detained, therefore I am free to go, unless you can articulate a suspicion that I have, am committing or will imminently commit a crime,

At which point he will probably resist to which I will make it clear, that I am leaving and he would have to murder me in cold blood to make me to otherwise so he should either pull the trigger or let me go.



There are so many variations it's unreal but in any case, police are public servants and must be made accountable for their actions. No RAS = No ID
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,170
Location
earth's crust
Possible flow of conversation (I don't use the term RAS with them as they seem ignorant of the accronym)

Cop: Can I see some ID please
Me: Am I being detained, Officer?
Cop: At the moment, yes.
Me: probably cause?
Cop: You have a gun.
Me Not valid probable cause as per US v Deberry, which states the bearing of arms is not sufficient reason to be detained, therefore I am free to go, unless you can articulate a suspicion that I have, am committing or will imminently commit a crime,

At which point he will probably resist to which I will make it clear, that I am leaving and he would have to murder me in cold blood to make me to otherwise so he should either pull the trigger or let me go.



There are so many variations it's unreal but in any case, police are public servants and must be made accountable for their actions. No RAS = No ID
See start of video for a proper response to ID:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LowVhCfLm68
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,347
Location
White Oak Plantation
Why must I make a cop's job easier when it is he who inconvenienced me. Why must I bear the burden of reducing the duration of me being inconvenienced.

The OP, more than most folks, should be more suspicious of a cop and his intentions when he approaches a citizen.

I grew up in a family of Police Officers. - captrickmoisa
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,242
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Why must I make a cop's job easier when it is he who inconvenienced me. Why must I bear the burden of reducing the duration of me being inconvenienced.

The OP, more than most folks, should be more suspicious of a cop and his intentions when he approaches a citizen.
Well, if the cop is going to burn-up my time, then I'm going to burn-up as much of his time as possible. Because if I'm burning up his time he can't be out burning- up other peoples time. You could consider it a public service.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,242
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I'm lucky where I live. Our township police chief understands public safety. Not public safety meaning writing traffic tickets, but patroling the residential streets making sure there is not suspicious activity. Yes they do run some traffic duty, but very little. It is usually done because of citizens complaints. This is the proper why it is to be done...
 
Last edited:

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,283
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
We also need your social security number. After all, you are that number. One of the first things you will learn in policeman school is a persons identity is his social security number.
I didn't think the SSN was demanded much by cops anymore. What with the federal SSN privacy act or whatever it is called requiring three disclosures by a government agency when requesting an SSN. The three points are something like:

1. cite the statute authorizing the use of the SSN for whichever purpose it is being requested.
2. state whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary
3. state the purpose for which it will be used
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I didn't think the SSN was demanded much by cops anymore. What with the federal SSN privacy act or whatever it is called requiring three disclosures by a government agency when requesting an SSN. The three points are something like:

1. cite the statute authorizing the use of the SSN for whichever purpose it is being requested.
2. state whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary
3. state the purpose for which it will be used
Also a felony to ask for it in a manor that is not legal.
42USC408

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Ahhhhh. <pleasure> One of my favorite subjects.

First, we each have to make our own decisions. While I might shake my head at the person who cooperates, I must concede that no matter how strongly I might disagree, it is his right to cooperate.

On to your questions. I cannot answer for others. I can only answer for myself.

Thousands of people paid the price in blood, smoke, and treasure across centuries to wrest from government our rights. From Magna Carta to ratification of the Bill of Rights was 576 years. Over half a millennium. Literally over a million Americans have died since then defending them. I will not spit on their graves by waiving those rights. A cop's curiosity in the here-and-now pales in comparison to centuries-long price paid to win and protect those rights.

A heavy price--very heavy, indeed--was paid to obtain our rights. I am absolutely not willing to pay that price twice, to pay it again. Especially for something government should already recognize without the people having to demand it. Rights were way, way too costly to obtain. They are precious, if no other reason than the human suffering and sacrifice it cost to obtain them. Very, very high price. Very, very high value.

Thus, I am unwilling to back up even one inch. Somebody died or suffered badly to gain that one inch. Thus, I will exercise rights to the limit. There is just no way in hell I am willing for anybody to have to go through that again.
Another reason:

If a cop is confronting me about an openly carried, properly holstered, defensive sidearm, implicit in his investigation is the premise that exercising an enumerated right is somehow suspicious.

Oh, hell no! Being able to defend yourself against criminal attack is a fundamental human right. There is no possible way exercising a fundamental human right can be lowered to the same level as suspicion of criminality. No, no, NO!!
Volunteering information is akin to swallowing a treble hook, line and sinker. No good will come of it.
I am very glad to see these three excellent posts among the first in this thread. There was a well posed and concise question, and these are well posed, both thorough and concise answers.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,242
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
I didn't think the SSN was demanded much by cops anymore. What with the federal SSN privacy act or whatever it is called requiring three disclosures by a government agency when requesting an SSN. The three points are something like:

1. cite the statute authorizing the use of the SSN for whichever purpose it is being requested.
2. state whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary
3. state the purpose for which it will be used
Police use your SSN. When I was arrested in 2013 they wanted my SSN. That was a big fat NO. When I got the arrest report the SSN was on the report. The police manual discusses the SSN including redacting the number under open record requests.
 
Top