.45acp
Regular Member
imported post
To all who don’t live on the border and have no reason to keep up with the events taking place, I wrote this up and included quotes and website links that you can check for yourselves (there are literally hundreds of links that could be included). This issue is not really complicated…just follow the money, corruption and political pandering. It is not my intention to create a political discussion on the Arizona OC forum, but the recent law signed by Gov. Brewer has done it for me.
It does illustrate why we need the right to OC or CC as our individual needs may be. I live 8 miles from a Narco State and they are here.
My apologies to all,
Steve
The illegal immigration and border control problem is clouded and kept in rhetorical arguments by our own politicians and other special interest groups for three reasons that I can see. I have treated this as three related, intertwined points; Illegal Immigration, Drug Trafficking and US internal issues.
1, The economy of Mexico is dependent upon the money the illegal’s send back home. Simple fact, it is the 2[suP]nd[/suP] largest cash flow (legal) in the Mexican economy next to PEMEX and Exports. There have been several studies that actually stated that if the border is sealed, drug smuggling and illegal immigration halted it may throw Mexico into a revolution due to the economic pandemonium border closure would create. It is also argued that Mexico has a deep historic grievance against the US and that eventually the lost territories in the South West USA will be returned to Mexico by default by unfettered illegal immigration (this is La Raza’s and MEChA’s goals).
From http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán." (Aztlan being the Southwestern US)
All along the border, the Mexican government provides written guides and advice to people making the trek. There are shops and business that cater to the illegals selling electrolyte drinks, backpacks, hiking boots, water canteens, maps or routes etc. In short Mexico supports and does nothing to stem the flow, their efforts are to maintain the status quo and ensure that illegal’s can still pass relatively unscathed across our border. Our politicians; local, state and federal ignore the Mexican government’s refusal to assist in stemming the tide.
From the US Government immigration site
“Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances (From Mexicans in the US). The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country.”
From http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1466713/
Massey said the goal of undocumented Mexicans in the U.S. is not to live in the country permanently but "to use the U.S. labor market as an instrument to raise money to solve an economic problem at home."
From http://mexicanoccupation.blogspot.com/2010/04/looting-of-america-we-are-mexicos.html
LEGISLATORS FROM MEXICO STATE ANGRY AT INFLUX OF MEXICANS RETURNING TO THEIR HOMELAND
Posted by Kim Priestap
Can you believe the nerve of these people? Nine state legislators from the Mexican state of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico. It seems many Mexican illegals are now returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked. A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on Tuesday to say Arizona's new employer sanctions law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state. At a news conference, the legislators said Sonora - Arizona's southern neighbor, made up of mostly small towns - cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools it will face as illegal Mexican workers here return to their hometowns without jobs or money. The law, which took effect Jan.1, punishes employers who knowingly hire individuals who don't have valid legal documents to work in the United States. Penalties include suspension or loss of a business license. They're teed off because their own citizens are returning to their hometowns, placing a huge burden on their state government. They want to tell them how the law will affect Mexican families on both sides of the border 'How can they pass a law like this?' asked Mexican Rep. Leticia Amparano- Gamez, who represents Nogales. 'There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona,' she said in Spanish. 'Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems' it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs, she said. ' We are one family, socially and economically,' she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona. Wrong!!! The United States is a sovereign nation and its states and its citizens are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico's citizens. It's time for the Mexican government to stop parasitically feeding off of the United States and start taking care of its own citizens. Too bad all the states don't pass a law just like it. Maybe that's the answer since congress will not do anything.
2, The Mexican economy is dependent upon the drug trade that contributes substantial cash to the banking, investment systems and across all economic levels of Mexican life. Not to mention the corruption, payoffs and bribes that are a way of life, making the political class wealthy. We, the US as drug consumers are the biggest customer of Mexico’s illegal drug business, we keep the dopers in business. During the recent economic crises, the 40 billion dollar (estimated to be 80% profit or 32 billion dollars free and clear) per year drug slush fund kept Mexican banks afloat and the investment dollars flowing….This money all came from the good ole US of A, thanks to our government and the policies that refuses to control the border. The short story is that Mexico is a “Narco State” and the same folks that control the drugs also control the illegal traffickers (Coyotes), they are one in the same organization. Perhaps a good example of the corruption and intertwining of Mexico’s government and business would be Carlos Sims, the world’s richest man. In 1997 he was worth 6 billion USD, his fortune is now estimated at 50 to 60 billion USD, and has been linked to nefarious characters in the Mexican government and narco trade. Mexico, while crying crocodile tears really has no reason to stem the flow of illicit narcotics to the US and more importantly the flow of cash back in to Mexico. The narco trade does not affect or impact the wealthy negatively, some cash does flow into the poor sectors of Mexican life and it props up the banks and investment areas of their economy.
From http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122
“To put that in perspective: Mexico probably made more money in 2009 moving drugs than it did exporting oil, its single biggest legitimate foreign currency earner.
From the white Caribbean beaches of Cancun to violent towns on the U.S. border and the beauty parlors of Mexico City's wealthy suburbs, drug cash is everywhere in Mexico. It has even propped up the country's banking system, helping it ride out the financial crisis and aiding the country's economy.
Smuggled into Mexico mostly from the United States in $100 bills, narco money finds its way onto the books of restaurants, construction firms and bars as drug lords try to legitimize their cash and prevent police from tracing it.
"Mexico is saturated with this money," said George Friedman, who heads geopolitical analysis firm Stratfor.
In western Mexico, drug money started pouring into Zapopan and nearby Guadalajara in the 1980s as the Sinaloa cartel bought hospitals and real estate, said Martin Barron, a researcher at the institute that trains Mexico's organized crime prosecutors.
Now residents in the region known in Mexico for its piety say drug smugglers barely make an effort to disguise themselves.”
From Stratfor http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/mexico_is_not_a_failed_state_--_its_propped_up_by_drug_money/
On the whole, Mexico is a tremendous beneficiary of the drug trade. Even if some of the profits are invested overseas, the pool of remaining money flowing into Mexico creates tremendous liquidity in the Mexican economy at a time of global recession. It is difficult to trace where the drug money is going, which follows from its illegality. Certainly, drug dealers would want their money in a jurisdiction where it could not be easily seized even if tracked. U.S. asset seizure laws for drug trafficking make the United States an unlikely haven. Though money clearly flows out of Mexico, the ability of the smugglers to influence the behavior of the Mexican government by investing some of it makes Mexico a likely destination for a substantial portion of such funds.
The Drug War and Mexican National Interests
From Mexico’s point of view, interrupting the flow of drugs to the United States is not clearly in the national interest or in that of the economic elite. Observers often dwell on the warfare between smuggling organizations in the northern borderland but rarely on the flow of American money into Mexico. Certainly, that money could corrupt the Mexican state, but it also behaves as money does. It is accumulated and invested, where it generates wealth and jobs. For the Mexican government to become willing to shut off this flow of money, the violence would have to become far more geographically widespread. And given the difficulty of ending the traffic anyway — and that many in the state security and military apparatus benefit from it — an obvious conclusion can be drawn: Namely, it is difficult to foreseescenarios in which the Mexican government could or would stop the drug trade. Instead, Mexico will accept both the pain and the benefits of the drug trade. Mexico’s policy is consistent: It makes every effort to appear to be stopping the drug trade so that it will not be accused of supporting it. The government does not object to disrupting one or more of the smuggling groups, so long as the aggregate inflow of cash does not materially decline. It demonstrates to the United States efforts (albeit inadequate) to tackle the trade, while pointing out very real problems with its military and security apparatus and with its officials in Mexico City. It simultaneously points to the United States as the cause of the problem, given Washington’s failure to control demand or to reduce prices by legalization. And if massive amounts of money pour into Mexico as a result of this U.S. failure, Mexico is not going to refuse it
Moreover, Mexico has deep historic grievances toward the United States dating back to the Mexican-American War. These have been exacerbated by U.S. immigration policy that the Mexicans see both as insulting and as a threat to their policy of exporting surplus labor north. There is thus no desire to solve the Americans’ problem. Certainly, there are individuals in the Mexican government who wish to stop the smuggling and the inflow of billions of dollars. They will try. But they will not succeed, as too much is at stake. One must ignore public statements and earnest private assurances and instead observe the facts on the ground to understand what’s really going on.
3, Lastly we have our own corrupt politicos pandering to the Mexican government, Latino groups, special interests in the US desiring cheap labor that absolutely refuse to control the border. We the US tax payer are supporting a corrupt Mexican government, educating their children, supporting a major portion of the Mexican economy, paying to imprison their criminals, paying for the health care of their sick and shoulder the burden of corporations wanting cheap labor. The New York Times even reported that Hugo Chavez is contributing 1.5 million thru Citgo to a Latino advocacy group “To embarrass Bush”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080401485.html”Citgo, the Venezuelan-owned oil company, is making a $1.5 million donation to the Silver Spring nonprofit group CASA of Maryland to help fund educational, training and economic development programs for low-income and immigrant workers. The contribution is the latest effort by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez to reach out to the poor in the United States in what critics call an attempt to curry favor with low-income Americans and embarrass President Bush.”
The article continues with Chavez’s aim;
“The donation will be spread over three years to help fund the group's $4.4 million vocational training and economic development program. It will offer day laborers and other low-income workers skills courses in the construction trades, counseling to small business owners and access to social services. One of the programs encourages the formation of worker-owned cooperatives. Chávez has encouraged such cooperatives as part of his so-called Bolivarian Revolution.”
So you can see that there are many fingers in this pie, and the only people that are truly concerned about the border and its security are we, the American working stiffs that pay the price for everything.
It is treasonous that our elected representatives allow this to continue on our tax dime and treat us like idiots, that we just can’t understand the issues. It is willful failure by our government; it is treason against the American people to refuse to control our borders.
Our elected representatives are literally giving our country and wealth away.
Websites supporting the above statements
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122
http://www.stratfor.com/frontpage
To all who don’t live on the border and have no reason to keep up with the events taking place, I wrote this up and included quotes and website links that you can check for yourselves (there are literally hundreds of links that could be included). This issue is not really complicated…just follow the money, corruption and political pandering. It is not my intention to create a political discussion on the Arizona OC forum, but the recent law signed by Gov. Brewer has done it for me.
It does illustrate why we need the right to OC or CC as our individual needs may be. I live 8 miles from a Narco State and they are here.
My apologies to all,
Steve
The illegal immigration and border control problem is clouded and kept in rhetorical arguments by our own politicians and other special interest groups for three reasons that I can see. I have treated this as three related, intertwined points; Illegal Immigration, Drug Trafficking and US internal issues.
1, The economy of Mexico is dependent upon the money the illegal’s send back home. Simple fact, it is the 2[suP]nd[/suP] largest cash flow (legal) in the Mexican economy next to PEMEX and Exports. There have been several studies that actually stated that if the border is sealed, drug smuggling and illegal immigration halted it may throw Mexico into a revolution due to the economic pandemonium border closure would create. It is also argued that Mexico has a deep historic grievance against the US and that eventually the lost territories in the South West USA will be returned to Mexico by default by unfettered illegal immigration (this is La Raza’s and MEChA’s goals).
From http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
MEChA is an Hispanic separatist organization that encourages anti-American activities and civil disobedience. The radical members of MEChA who refer to themselves as "Mechistas," romanticize Mexican claims to the "lost Territories" of the Southwestern United States -- a Chicano country called Aztlan. In its national constitution, MEChA calls for self-determination by its members to liberate Aztlan. MEChA's national constitution starts out: "Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán." (Aztlan being the Southwestern US)
All along the border, the Mexican government provides written guides and advice to people making the trek. There are shops and business that cater to the illegals selling electrolyte drinks, backpacks, hiking boots, water canteens, maps or routes etc. In short Mexico supports and does nothing to stem the flow, their efforts are to maintain the status quo and ensure that illegal’s can still pass relatively unscathed across our border. Our politicians; local, state and federal ignore the Mexican government’s refusal to assist in stemming the tide.
From the US Government immigration site
“Last year Mexico received more than $17 billion in remittances (From Mexicans in the US). The amount of remittances in Mexico exceeds the amount of foreign direct investment in the country.”
From http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1466713/
Massey said the goal of undocumented Mexicans in the U.S. is not to live in the country permanently but "to use the U.S. labor market as an instrument to raise money to solve an economic problem at home."
From http://mexicanoccupation.blogspot.com/2010/04/looting-of-america-we-are-mexicos.html
LEGISLATORS FROM MEXICO STATE ANGRY AT INFLUX OF MEXICANS RETURNING TO THEIR HOMELAND
Posted by Kim Priestap
Can you believe the nerve of these people? Nine state legislators from the Mexican state of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico. It seems many Mexican illegals are now returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked. A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on Tuesday to say Arizona's new employer sanctions law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state. At a news conference, the legislators said Sonora - Arizona's southern neighbor, made up of mostly small towns - cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools it will face as illegal Mexican workers here return to their hometowns without jobs or money. The law, which took effect Jan.1, punishes employers who knowingly hire individuals who don't have valid legal documents to work in the United States. Penalties include suspension or loss of a business license. They're teed off because their own citizens are returning to their hometowns, placing a huge burden on their state government. They want to tell them how the law will affect Mexican families on both sides of the border 'How can they pass a law like this?' asked Mexican Rep. Leticia Amparano- Gamez, who represents Nogales. 'There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona,' she said in Spanish. 'Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems' it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and sending money to their families return to hometowns in Sonora without jobs, she said. ' We are one family, socially and economically,' she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona. Wrong!!! The United States is a sovereign nation and its states and its citizens are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico's citizens. It's time for the Mexican government to stop parasitically feeding off of the United States and start taking care of its own citizens. Too bad all the states don't pass a law just like it. Maybe that's the answer since congress will not do anything.
2, The Mexican economy is dependent upon the drug trade that contributes substantial cash to the banking, investment systems and across all economic levels of Mexican life. Not to mention the corruption, payoffs and bribes that are a way of life, making the political class wealthy. We, the US as drug consumers are the biggest customer of Mexico’s illegal drug business, we keep the dopers in business. During the recent economic crises, the 40 billion dollar (estimated to be 80% profit or 32 billion dollars free and clear) per year drug slush fund kept Mexican banks afloat and the investment dollars flowing….This money all came from the good ole US of A, thanks to our government and the policies that refuses to control the border. The short story is that Mexico is a “Narco State” and the same folks that control the drugs also control the illegal traffickers (Coyotes), they are one in the same organization. Perhaps a good example of the corruption and intertwining of Mexico’s government and business would be Carlos Sims, the world’s richest man. In 1997 he was worth 6 billion USD, his fortune is now estimated at 50 to 60 billion USD, and has been linked to nefarious characters in the Mexican government and narco trade. Mexico, while crying crocodile tears really has no reason to stem the flow of illicit narcotics to the US and more importantly the flow of cash back in to Mexico. The narco trade does not affect or impact the wealthy negatively, some cash does flow into the poor sectors of Mexican life and it props up the banks and investment areas of their economy.
From http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122
“To put that in perspective: Mexico probably made more money in 2009 moving drugs than it did exporting oil, its single biggest legitimate foreign currency earner.
From the white Caribbean beaches of Cancun to violent towns on the U.S. border and the beauty parlors of Mexico City's wealthy suburbs, drug cash is everywhere in Mexico. It has even propped up the country's banking system, helping it ride out the financial crisis and aiding the country's economy.
Smuggled into Mexico mostly from the United States in $100 bills, narco money finds its way onto the books of restaurants, construction firms and bars as drug lords try to legitimize their cash and prevent police from tracing it.
"Mexico is saturated with this money," said George Friedman, who heads geopolitical analysis firm Stratfor.
In western Mexico, drug money started pouring into Zapopan and nearby Guadalajara in the 1980s as the Sinaloa cartel bought hospitals and real estate, said Martin Barron, a researcher at the institute that trains Mexico's organized crime prosecutors.
Now residents in the region known in Mexico for its piety say drug smugglers barely make an effort to disguise themselves.”
From Stratfor http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/mexico_is_not_a_failed_state_--_its_propped_up_by_drug_money/
On the whole, Mexico is a tremendous beneficiary of the drug trade. Even if some of the profits are invested overseas, the pool of remaining money flowing into Mexico creates tremendous liquidity in the Mexican economy at a time of global recession. It is difficult to trace where the drug money is going, which follows from its illegality. Certainly, drug dealers would want their money in a jurisdiction where it could not be easily seized even if tracked. U.S. asset seizure laws for drug trafficking make the United States an unlikely haven. Though money clearly flows out of Mexico, the ability of the smugglers to influence the behavior of the Mexican government by investing some of it makes Mexico a likely destination for a substantial portion of such funds.
The Drug War and Mexican National Interests
From Mexico’s point of view, interrupting the flow of drugs to the United States is not clearly in the national interest or in that of the economic elite. Observers often dwell on the warfare between smuggling organizations in the northern borderland but rarely on the flow of American money into Mexico. Certainly, that money could corrupt the Mexican state, but it also behaves as money does. It is accumulated and invested, where it generates wealth and jobs. For the Mexican government to become willing to shut off this flow of money, the violence would have to become far more geographically widespread. And given the difficulty of ending the traffic anyway — and that many in the state security and military apparatus benefit from it — an obvious conclusion can be drawn: Namely, it is difficult to foreseescenarios in which the Mexican government could or would stop the drug trade. Instead, Mexico will accept both the pain and the benefits of the drug trade. Mexico’s policy is consistent: It makes every effort to appear to be stopping the drug trade so that it will not be accused of supporting it. The government does not object to disrupting one or more of the smuggling groups, so long as the aggregate inflow of cash does not materially decline. It demonstrates to the United States efforts (albeit inadequate) to tackle the trade, while pointing out very real problems with its military and security apparatus and with its officials in Mexico City. It simultaneously points to the United States as the cause of the problem, given Washington’s failure to control demand or to reduce prices by legalization. And if massive amounts of money pour into Mexico as a result of this U.S. failure, Mexico is not going to refuse it
Moreover, Mexico has deep historic grievances toward the United States dating back to the Mexican-American War. These have been exacerbated by U.S. immigration policy that the Mexicans see both as insulting and as a threat to their policy of exporting surplus labor north. There is thus no desire to solve the Americans’ problem. Certainly, there are individuals in the Mexican government who wish to stop the smuggling and the inflow of billions of dollars. They will try. But they will not succeed, as too much is at stake. One must ignore public statements and earnest private assurances and instead observe the facts on the ground to understand what’s really going on.
3, Lastly we have our own corrupt politicos pandering to the Mexican government, Latino groups, special interests in the US desiring cheap labor that absolutely refuse to control the border. We the US tax payer are supporting a corrupt Mexican government, educating their children, supporting a major portion of the Mexican economy, paying to imprison their criminals, paying for the health care of their sick and shoulder the burden of corporations wanting cheap labor. The New York Times even reported that Hugo Chavez is contributing 1.5 million thru Citgo to a Latino advocacy group “To embarrass Bush”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080401485.html”Citgo, the Venezuelan-owned oil company, is making a $1.5 million donation to the Silver Spring nonprofit group CASA of Maryland to help fund educational, training and economic development programs for low-income and immigrant workers. The contribution is the latest effort by Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez to reach out to the poor in the United States in what critics call an attempt to curry favor with low-income Americans and embarrass President Bush.”
The article continues with Chavez’s aim;
“The donation will be spread over three years to help fund the group's $4.4 million vocational training and economic development program. It will offer day laborers and other low-income workers skills courses in the construction trades, counseling to small business owners and access to social services. One of the programs encourages the formation of worker-owned cooperatives. Chávez has encouraged such cooperatives as part of his so-called Bolivarian Revolution.”
So you can see that there are many fingers in this pie, and the only people that are truly concerned about the border and its security are we, the American working stiffs that pay the price for everything.
It is treasonous that our elected representatives allow this to continue on our tax dime and treat us like idiots, that we just can’t understand the issues. It is willful failure by our government; it is treason against the American people to refuse to control our borders.
Our elected representatives are literally giving our country and wealth away.
Websites supporting the above statements
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L0X120100122
http://www.stratfor.com/frontpage