The Wis-dumb of Pogo

[georg jetson]

Implying?

It was written by MEN, over hundreds of years, transcribed from multiple languages to multiple languages and back again... then REwritten to fit the ideals of the times... making certain things sins..

Compare the old testament to the new testament.

So as someone who follows the bible, you believe in stoning disobedient children and wives being subservient to their husbands?

How bout having a duty to marry your sister in law if your brother dies without having children?

Perhaps you believe you should have a Hebrew slave for six years, and on the seventh he should be set free... ?

Or maybe you think that you can sell your daughter into slavery, and if she does not please him, then you must buy her back .. ?


or... just possibly.. you think your daughters should drug you and rape you, so that they may have children and continue the family line?



These are ALL in the bible... you can't pick/choose what you want to hear.. but that's what everyone wants to do...

NONE of this proves the BIBLE is fiction.

I most certainly do NOT pick and choose... I hear it all... can you??

 

[georg jetson]

That's all I have to say and I will not respond to any more of your posts because there is no point.

Well... good luck to you.

I respect the fact that we disagree but... - I had to edit this post to include the following...

You say...
"If you hit a child, you teach that child to hit. Children will mimic their parents, regardless of what you say."

Not only is there no scientific basis for this whatsoever, but it as an out right lie. ASK ANY PARENT!! Causing a child pain based on the child's actions will most assuredly cause the child to change its actions. When it comes down to it, if I yell to my children STOP!! They will stop. If a parent who has not disciplined their children properly, yells STOP!!! That child WILL run into the street and get killed by the car... child abuse.

You're assuming that any type of pain is child abuse, WRONG. Causing SAFE pain to a child is NOT abuse. We will perish as a nation of spoiled brats if we don't understand this...

Ok... had to edit again - Children have NO rights. That's the definition of being a CHILD. When they reach the age of majority THEN they take on the rights due to an adult. Until then, children have exactly the number of rights their parents let them have. If you disagree with this then you are insane.

 

[georg jetson]

I think further trying to discuss with you is pointless, if you can't even construct a simple logical argument nor understand what a fallacy is. The plain fact is that you're wrong, illogical, and, in my opinion, a bit of a nutcase.

I agree... further discussion is pointless. It's difficult to find people that will discuss such things openly and honestly. Particularly people that don't understand the rigors of science nor the practical application thereof...

 

[TechnoWeenie]

NONE of this proves the BIBLE is fiction.

I most certainly do NOT pick and choose... I hear it all... can you??

There is no proof that the bible is non-fiction either.

Jewish zombies, surviving on a boat that's large enough to hold 2 of every living animal on the planet - for months, destruction of entire cities, people being turned into salt..

Yeah, sounds like non-fiction to me.


Look at the Book of Mormon, that's 'the bible', just written to read how they want to interpret it... There's a reason why there are so many versions, so people can claim whatever they want from it...

Same as radical muslims do, taking things in the Quran out of context to justify mass murder.


I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. I know a lot of religious people who do nothing but good deeds and ask for nothing in return. But they may be lying to themselves, thinking they'll get the 'ultimate reward'. With thousands of religions, I doubt that any one person will get it perfectly.

 

[Tawnos]

I agree... further discussion is pointless. It's difficult to find people that will discuss such things openly and honestly. Particularly people that don't understand the rigors of science nor the practical application thereof...

I'm glad you're willing to admit that you don't understand science or its practical applications. Makes it much easier to ignore you.

 

[sharkey]

I literally felt sick to my stomach reading what you wrote. You are now defending the the "right" of parents to committ incest on their children.

You are mentally ill, seek help.

Good question Ruby. Because we don't live in a perfect word, we often find ourselves having to choose a less than perfect solution. We can all agree that putting things in the hands of the government, state or federal, is almost always a bad idea. Indeed, look what has happened because of this. The public school systems are used to keep an eye on parents to make sure that they're doing what the STATE thinks they should be doing. What a horrible situation to think that the STATE becomes the final say in what parents should do with their own children.

There is another very good point to make here. If you understand that there is a Creator, then you have to understand that it is the Creator that has decided who becomes parents. It is the CREATOR that has given the RIGHT for parents to do as they please to their children. Of course, there are good parents AND bad parents. This is just the reality in which we live.

A further point is this... and I think this is a good place to make this point because there's already a lot of discussion about RIGHTS vs STATE control due to the nature of this forum... OCing. Would you agree that having children is a right? Would you agree raising your children as you wish a right? How could you ever infringe on this right and yet still maintain a free country. I assure you, it was NEVER the intention of the citizens of the colonies to meddle in each other's family affairs.



I disagree. My children are mine! I posses them. Indeed, I will fight to the death anyone who attempts to do harm to them OR remove them from my possession. Most certainly they are NOT to be abused... and animals aren't either for that matter, but it is NOT the government's place in a free country to tell me what I can and can't do with my MOST PRIZED POSSESSION.



NEVER!!!! Children belong to the parents and the parents alone. A state that has the authority to remove children from their parents for what may be considered a GOOD reason can then empower itself to remove them for ANY reason.



This is a major misconception!! We are creatures that understand PAIN over ANYTHING else. We learn to keep from hurting ourselves because of PAIN. There is NO reasoning with a 2 year old. How do you keep a 2 yr old from touching a hot stove without letting him get burned? You cause pain ,in a safe way, such that the child will remember and associate.

Eventually, as the child gets older, a parent should move away from corporal type punishment. Other punishments like increased chore level, depriving of a favorite toy are useful only to the extent that the child obeys. If the higher level of discipline becomes difficult to enforce then it MUSt be enforced by the appropriate application of pain.



This is just straight nonsense.



NO!!! The future criminal AND the EXISTING criminal is created from LACK OF DISCIPLINE. It cannot be argued against that one of the most glaring issues with inner city children is the LACK of a father or sometimes lack of BOTH parents. NO one is there to PROPERLY discipline.



I got over it. I realized that my parents did the best that they could under the circumstances. The American people have a "victim" mentality so they think it's a good thing to blame their problems in adulthood on abuse as a child. I'm sure there are cases when abusive parents have caused major issues with their children, but that is a miniscule amount.

Here' a news flash to all of those that haven't figured it out yet. Even with the best parents, some people will still have difficulties growing to the adult level.

This is not directed at you Ruby, but adults in the US in general... GET OVER IT!!

 

[Badger Johnson]

Darker side??? Discipline is a necessary responsibility parents MUST provide to their children

Quit whining...

I admit to having cried on that occasion, but it was due to a broken heart that my loving father would go to such extremes. It was a 'wanna cry, I'll give you something to cry about' moment.

The whining wasn't done by me but by my parents when I confronted them 25 years later. They denied it - all of it. Good "Christians", who couldn't remember. So I contacted the original players and they confirmed it. My parents became embarrassed and they were the ones whining. My aunt tearfully apologized for not sheltering me. I was beat for taking the blame when my brother misbehaved (he was caught with a .22 rifle shooting at the nearby lake by the police - I was blamed for not stopping him). I was punched in the jaw by my father for saying I hated my mother for pumping him up into a rage. At the time (age 12) I couldn't even block, my hands were under the covers tucked in tightly. All of the walls in our house had a door knob divot behind them, from my dad slamming the doors open. When I was 16 he almost hit me in the head with a full mustard jar which he threw at the sink, taking out a chunk of porcelain - I was standing in the kitchen when my mother drove him into a rage about some nonsense. He'd frequently drive off squealing tires and I thought I'd never see him again, my mom made him so mad with her pointless raving. This from a SS teacher and deacon in the Methodist church. Thus 'the darker side' of their 'glowing facades' which they presented at church.

People free from the tyranny of religion are moral due to their values, not due to some external laws.

In my case I gave up religion and never laid a hand on my child, I'm proud to say. She's grown up just fine, getting her own apartment, paying for some additional schooling herself.

Religious zealots are typically hypocrites unable to hold up their strict codes, and itching to break these old testament 'laws', as did Abraham and Moses and all the other biblical 'heroes'.

Here you have caused people to feel hatred for you. Whether or not you are 'correct' in your idea about 'owning your children', you do not engender love. When, pray tell, to your children cease to be your possessions? When you die?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I admit to having cried on that occasion, but it was due to a broken heart that my loving father would go to such extremes. It was a 'wanna cry, I'll give you something to cry about' moment.

The whining wasn't done by me but by my parents when I confronted them 25 years later. They denied it - all of it. Good "Christians", who couldn't remember. So I contacted the original players and they confirmed it. My parents became embarrassed and they were the ones whining. My aunt tearfully apologized for not sheltering me. I was beat for taking the blame when my brother misbehaved (he was caught with a .22 rifle shooting at the nearby lake by the police - I was blamed for not stopping him). I was punched in the jaw by my father for saying I hated my mother for pumping him up into a rage. At the time (age 12) I couldn't even block, my hands were under the covers tucked in tightly. All of the walls in our house had a door knob divot behind them, from my dad slamming the doors open. When I was 16 he almost hit me in the head with a full mustard jar which he threw at the sink, taking out a chunk of porcelain - I was standing in the kitchen when my mother drove him into a rage about some nonsense. He'd frequently drive off squealing tires and I thought I'd never see him again, my mom made him so mad with her pointless raving. This from a SS teacher and deacon in the Methodist church. Thus 'the darker side' of their 'glowing facades' which they presented at church.

People free from the tyranny of religion are moral due to their values, not due to some external laws.

In my case I gave up religion and never laid a hand on my child, I'm proud to say. She's grown up just fine, getting her own apartment, paying for some additional schooling herself.

Religious zealots are typically hypocrites unable to hold up their strict codes, and itching to break these old testament 'laws', as did Abraham and Moses and all the other biblical 'heroes'.

Here you have caused people to feel hatred for you. Whether or not you are 'correct' in your idea about 'owning your children', you do not engender love. When, pray tell, to your children cease to be your possessions? When you die?

Wow bringing back memories. Badger you and I have something in common, I suffered similarly at the hands of my mother, who went from leftist hippy to religious zealot. I don't have much to do with my family anymore. Is it why I am agnostic? I don't know may play a part. I have long ago realized though that we can't blame the religion for the "f'd" up people who hypocritically hide behind a wall of pretend righteousness.

 

[georg jetson]

I literally felt sick to my stomach reading what you wrote. You are now defending the the "right" of parents to committ incest on their children.

You are mentally ill, seek help.

No!!! I'm defending the RIGHT of parents to be free from government control.

What YOU are saying is tantamount to saying this...

If you think people should be able to own guns without government control means that you are arguing for the right of people to kill who they want.

ALSO, if parents in general are not to be "trusted" with their own kids, then why the hell do we trust them with a firearm.

 

[georg jetson]

I admit to having cried on that occasion, but it was due to a broken heart that my loving father would go to such extremes. It was a 'wanna cry, I'll give you something to cry about' moment.

The whining wasn't done by me but by my parents when I confronted them 25 years later. They denied it - all of it. Good "Christians", who couldn't remember. So I contacted the original players and they confirmed it. My parents became embarrassed and they were the ones whining. My aunt tearfully apologized for not sheltering me. I was beat for taking the blame when my brother misbehaved (he was caught with a .22 rifle shooting at the nearby lake by the police - I was blamed for not stopping him). I was punched in the jaw by my father for saying I hated my mother for pumping him up into a rage. At the time (age 12) I couldn't even block, my hands were under the covers tucked in tightly. All of the walls in our house had a door knob divot behind them, from my dad slamming the doors open. When I was 16 he almost hit me in the head with a full mustard jar which he threw at the sink, taking out a chunk of porcelain - I was standing in the kitchen when my mother drove him into a rage about some nonsense. He'd frequently drive off squealing tires and I thought I'd never see him again, my mom made him so mad with her pointless raving. This from a SS teacher and deacon in the Methodist church. Thus 'the darker side' of their 'glowing facades' which they presented at church.

It is unfortunate but a fact of life... parents will make mistakes. I have made my fair share.

People free from the tyranny of religion are moral due to their values, not due to some external laws.

Yes, religion is a form of tyranny that must be defended against. However, it is not enough to trade the tyranny of religion for the tyranny of government control.

In my case I gave up religion and never laid a hand on my child, I'm proud to say. She's grown up just fine, getting her own apartment, paying for some additional schooling herself.

I'm glad to hear that you think you did a good job with your child. Though I am an obvious supporter of corporal punishment, I would never want to use the government to force you to raise your children using corporal punishment. The most important point I'm making is that parents should be left alone to raise their children as they see fit. Mistakes WILL happen, but it's none of the government's business.

Religious zealots are typically hypocrites unable to hold up their strict codes, and itching to break these old testament 'laws', as did Abraham and Moses and all the other biblical 'heroes'.

This is certainly true in many cases, but those that ignore the obvious fact that there IS a creator have ignorance as their basis for logic. Indeed, such can be called anti-religious zealots.

Here you have caused people to feel hatred for you. Whether or not you are 'correct' in your idea about 'owning your children', you do not engender love.

I'm here for civil honest exchange of ideas. Other than that I couldn't care less what people think of me.

When, pray tell, to your children cease to be your possessions? When you die?

This is a silly question AND I've already covered this... the age of majority.