jt59
Regular Member
A while back, we had this discussion going here, but I can't remember the thread.....anyway, I contacted them directly, and they have responded to the question I put forward...Interesting to me, her recommendation to ask the police for an interpretation of the law....
BILL: 5061 (Against)
SUBJECT: Clouded language in the bill
MESSAGE:
Ma'am,
I am writing to you to seek some direction regarding ESB 5061, that effectively call out bicycles in the definition of "vehicles" on roadways.
In the quick read that I've done I am not sure what the purpose of this bill actually accomplishes, but I think that it may put people at some risk for inadvertantly breaking the law as it regards the carry of guns under the new definition.
Under RCW 9.41
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
Carry of a loaded firearm (handgun), is allowed in vehicles provided you have a CPL, it is under your immediate control (on your person) etc. This is generally the interpretion held by most carriers as it relates to carry while (on) driving a motorcycle. There is some semantical debate on being "in" a vehicle, vs being "on" a vehicle....but for those of us who carry all the time and participate in these hobby activities like biking, we want to stay out of harms way from a legal standpoint.
In any case, I am inquiring as to your intent if any on this aspect, realtive to carry on a bicycle...it would appear that the re-definition of a bicycle as a "vehicle" clearly puts this into a category that requires a CPL in order to be legal.
Did your folks miss the research on impact to other RCW's on this one?
NOTE: We could not determine that this constituent is in your district
JT59,
Thank you for contacting me with your comments pertaining to ESB 5061. We have had several questions similar to yours regarding this piece of legislation.
ESB 5061 was essentially a technical correction bill and did not substantively change the definition of "vehicle." (There is no "new" definition. In fact, the definition of "vehicle" in RCW 46.04.670 has included bicycles since 1991.) Current law regarding guns & permits was not changed in this bill. Bicycles have always been considered vehicles for most purposes (they are not vehicles for title/registration and dealer/manufacturer purposes, but are vehicles for all other purposes). This concept was not changed in ESB 5061. Judiciary staff indicated that bicyclists, under previous & existing law, must have a permit to carry guns. Nothing changed with ESB 5061.
It may be helpful to know that when reading legislation that is amending current law, the underlined portion of the language indicates an addition and parenthesis and a strikethrough indicated a deletion, otherwise the language remains unchanged. In ESB 5061, RCW 46.04.670 was being amended to correct internal references to another section of law related to licensing and registration and had no effect on whether a bicycle is a "vehicle".
Further, courts have interpreted RCW 9.41.050 to "permit the carrying of a pistol in a vehicle only if the pistol is unloaded or the pistol is carried on the person of an individual who has a license." State v. Ray, 23. Wn. App. 238, 241 (1979). The Legislature did not amend RCW 9.41.050 during the 2011 session. As always, it would be prudent to check with local law enforcement should you have a question or concern about whether a license is needed to carry a weapon under certain circumstances.
I am including a link to the bill for your convenience if you would like to review it further:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5061&year=2011
I hope this helps to address your concerns.
Mary Margaret
SENATE INTERNET E-MAIL DELIVERY SERVICE
TO: Senator Mary Margaret Haugen
FROM: JT59 (Non-Constituent)
BILL: 5061 (Against)
SUBJECT: Clouded language in the bill
MESSAGE:
Ma'am,
I am writing to you to seek some direction regarding ESB 5061, that effectively call out bicycles in the definition of "vehicles" on roadways.
In the quick read that I've done I am not sure what the purpose of this bill actually accomplishes, but I think that it may put people at some risk for inadvertantly breaking the law as it regards the carry of guns under the new definition.
Under RCW 9.41
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
Carry of a loaded firearm (handgun), is allowed in vehicles provided you have a CPL, it is under your immediate control (on your person) etc. This is generally the interpretion held by most carriers as it relates to carry while (on) driving a motorcycle. There is some semantical debate on being "in" a vehicle, vs being "on" a vehicle....but for those of us who carry all the time and participate in these hobby activities like biking, we want to stay out of harms way from a legal standpoint.
In any case, I am inquiring as to your intent if any on this aspect, realtive to carry on a bicycle...it would appear that the re-definition of a bicycle as a "vehicle" clearly puts this into a category that requires a CPL in order to be legal.
Did your folks miss the research on impact to other RCW's on this one?
NOTE: We could not determine that this constituent is in your district
JT59,
Thank you for contacting me with your comments pertaining to ESB 5061. We have had several questions similar to yours regarding this piece of legislation.
ESB 5061 was essentially a technical correction bill and did not substantively change the definition of "vehicle." (There is no "new" definition. In fact, the definition of "vehicle" in RCW 46.04.670 has included bicycles since 1991.) Current law regarding guns & permits was not changed in this bill. Bicycles have always been considered vehicles for most purposes (they are not vehicles for title/registration and dealer/manufacturer purposes, but are vehicles for all other purposes). This concept was not changed in ESB 5061. Judiciary staff indicated that bicyclists, under previous & existing law, must have a permit to carry guns. Nothing changed with ESB 5061.
It may be helpful to know that when reading legislation that is amending current law, the underlined portion of the language indicates an addition and parenthesis and a strikethrough indicated a deletion, otherwise the language remains unchanged. In ESB 5061, RCW 46.04.670 was being amended to correct internal references to another section of law related to licensing and registration and had no effect on whether a bicycle is a "vehicle".
Further, courts have interpreted RCW 9.41.050 to "permit the carrying of a pistol in a vehicle only if the pistol is unloaded or the pistol is carried on the person of an individual who has a license." State v. Ray, 23. Wn. App. 238, 241 (1979). The Legislature did not amend RCW 9.41.050 during the 2011 session. As always, it would be prudent to check with local law enforcement should you have a question or concern about whether a license is needed to carry a weapon under certain circumstances.
I am including a link to the bill for your convenience if you would like to review it further:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=5061&year=2011
I hope this helps to address your concerns.
Mary Margaret
SENATE INTERNET E-MAIL DELIVERY SERVICE
TO: Senator Mary Margaret Haugen
FROM: JT59 (Non-Constituent)