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Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Open Carry

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
FYI grapeshot. The lease that First and Goal has for the field is a 25 year lease that auto renews. First and Goal is the only booking agent for the stadium.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Now you are shining a brighter light into the corners.
.....
.........You may have a case.

It is going to take someone much more familiar with your state laws than myself to make that determination.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,310
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
PACIFIC NORTHWEST SHOOTING PARK ASSOCIATION v. CITY OF SEQUIM
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-supreme-court/1152139.html

I guess some of you also missed the Hadji / Jeff Hayes post from Spokane
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...Spokane-Public-Facilities-District-resolution

Sequim acknowledges that municipalites operate in either
a governmental capacity or a proprietary capacity.
When operating in a proprietary capacity,
a municipality retains the general rights of a landlord,
in that a municipality may set the conditions of use of the property.

The PFD asserts that when licensing the property to be used by a client,
the PFD is operating in a proprietary capacity.
Thus, the PFD can set the conditions of the license,
one of which is that the licensee must follow all of the rules and policies of the PFD.


BE AWARE: You are not the 'general public'.

Most licensees will require the purchase of a ticket to enter.
Some will prohibit cans, bottles, alcohol or knives on premise.
Every licensee is required to completely prohibit firearms in the venue.

The point being, since you must comply with the licensee conditions for entry,
you are no longer a member of the general public.

What does this mean to us?

Preemption applies to the general public.
If we are not the general public, preemption does not apply.

This is a very serious encroachment upon the concept of preemption.

Never-the-less, until Sequim can be clarified, or more strictly interpreted,
if you enter any place, building, land or area in which someone can place restriction upon entry,
preemption does not apply to you. If they say 'no carry', they can trespass you for carrying.
Because at that place and time, carrying is not a 'lawful condition'.


So, what about RCW 290/300 which states in relevant part:

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center,
operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070

If access is conditional, Sequim renders preemption meaningless in those areas.

Be warned.


 

Grim_Night

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Aug 5, 2012
Messages
772
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Bill, the problem is this... there are NO events held at Safeco or Centurylink that are "open to the public" under these conditions. Every event held at these 2 stadiums require a ticket to enter. If that is the case then RCW 9.41.290 and .300 have no meaning what so ever if the city or other municipality in question is able to just say "oh don't mind us, we are just renting out our property ALL THE TIME so that NOBODY may carry any weapons of any kind."

The city leases the property to first and goal and whoever manages safeco on a permanent basis who then sublets the property to whoever and imposes the "no weapons" rules
 
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Bill Starks

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Dec 27, 2007
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4,310
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
If you are thinking of taking up a court case, I'd talk with Hadji and Jeff Hayes. You are correct that the Sequim case is screwing us over on our rights.
 

dfraser3

New member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
1
Location
Washington
Civil Rights Violation?

1) Where can I carry in Washington?
Washington State follows British legal tradition, which states that anything that is not proscribed as unlawful is lawful (which stands for the proposition that whatever is not prohibited by law is allowed.)
So the real question is; where can you NOT carry in Washington? There are four main state statutes that one must be cognizant of: RCW 9.41.050 (Carrying Firearms), RCW 9.41.280 (Carry on School Grounds), RCW 9.41.300 (Weapons Prohibited in Certain Places), and RCW 70.108.150 (Firearms in Outdoor Music Festivals). It is your responsibility to read and understand the definitions and exceptions in the law. RCW 9.41.050 is the primary law which affects gun carrying on a day to day basis. This law makes it unlawful for one to conceal a pistol without a concealed pistol license (hereinafter called CPL), and also makes it unlawful for one to carry a loaded pistol in any vehicle, whether it be openly carried or concealed carried unless a person has a valid CPL(see RCW 9.41.060 on Exceptions). Loaded is defined as having ammunition inside of the gun itself (magazine inserted with ammunition with semi-auto, ammunition in cylinder for revolvers). Localities may also prohibit the carrying of handguns in the stadiums and convention centers that they operate, however they MUST exempt those who possess a concealed pistol license. There are also federal statutes you must be cognizant of: 18 USC 922 (q), which prohibit the carrying of a handgun within 1000 feet of a school unless you are licensed to carry or meet another exemption to this law. The constitutionality of this law is questionable in light of United States v. Lopez and District of Columbia v. Heller. To our knowledge, there has been no prosecutions of this law where this is the sole charge. 18 USC 930, which prohibit the carrying of firearms in any "federal facility" or any "federal court facility."

2) What is "Warranting alarm", why do people (firearms instructors, police officers, gun shop employees) say that this law makes it illegal t o open carry? In 1969, RCW 9.41.270 was passed in light of the intimidating actions of the Black Panther Party in both the State of California and in Seattle. Analysis of the legislative intent behind the bill and final law indicated that the Washington State Legislature never intended this to be a gun control bill, and stripped out in committee provisions of the bill which would have prohibited carry within 500 feet of any "public building" for fear it would ensnare a peaceable open carrier walking nearby, thereby violating a persons rights under Article 1, Section 24 of the Washington State Constitution. This is not to say that all forms of open carry are lawful. The key word is "peaceable". If your pistol is in a holster, and you're generally not touching it or making gripping movements (except of course, in an actual act of self defense), or opening a coat to expose your pistol to intimidate someone to do something, then the current body of case law (state v casad, state v. spencer) generally makes such carry lawful.

3) Can I open carry on a Bus, Train, Ferry, Personal Auto, Motorcycle or Bicycle? (RCW 9.91.025) The right to carry a gun or ammunition in a fashion is not otherwise prohibited by law on a MUNICIPAL TRANSIT VEHICLE (Greyhound /Amtrak is not a municipal transit vehicle). Busses, Trains & the Ferries are considered vehicles in Washington. You may carry loaded either openly or concealed in or on any vehicle if you possess a CPL (RCW 9.41.050 (2a)).
Amtrak
If there is nothing Prohibiting such Conduct..., then, it is Safe to assume such Conduct Legal. However, Federal Law, Enumerated under TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 97 § 1992, states: § 1992(7) Commits an Act, Including the USE of a Dangerous Weapon, with the Intent to cause Death or Serious Bodily Injury to any Person who is on Property described in SubParagraph (A) or (B) of Paragraph (4);
Under Federal Law, the USE of Firearms with such INTENT is what is ILLEGAL, not just having them. Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930, Trains, including Amtrak, do NOT qualify as Federal Facilities, because Amtrak employees are NOT federal Employees.
If found to be carrying you more than likely would have to disembark at the next stop.


4) Can I carry in a bank, grocery store, church? They are all private property and may impose their own rules. The Federal Government may own shares of a bank but they DO NOT function as Federal Property.


5) Can I carry at or near a school? Or College? (RCW 9.41.280)
If you have a valid CPL and are picking up or dropping off a student you are allowed on the school grounds. Firearms are not permitted in school buildings. Colleges set their own policies, most of which seem to ban lawfully carried guns. South Puget Sound Community College in Olympia is the only college in this state we know of that does not specifically ban lawfully carried guns from their campus.

6) I saw a park sign saying no firearms. Is that legal? (RCW 9.41.290) No. Washington State has preempted all firearms laws regarding possession. You may carry in any city, county, state, National Forest or National Park in Washington State.

7) Can I carry with a round in the chamber? (RCW 9.41.010)(10) & (RCW 77.15.460) defines "loaded" in Washington state. Unloaded means; Empty cylinder, empty chamber, no full mag or tube, not capped or primed.

8) How old do you have to be to carry a loaded handgun? (RCW 9.41.240) You must be 21 years of age to carry a loaded handgun in public. See RCW 9.41.060 for exceptions.

9)What states accept the Washington CPL?
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin

10) Can I carry in a bar? (RCW 9.41.300) No. You cannot carry in a place where alcohol IS consumed AND is off limits to persons under 21. Restaurants that serve alcohol are fine.

11) Where can I get information about firearms & licensing in Washington state?
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/index.html

12) Who am I required to show my CPL to, and when? The law is somewhat vague, but essentially IF you are required to have a CPL in your possession, you are obligated to produce it to qualified persons (such as law enforcement) if they demand it. Also since you have to have a CPL to carry loaded in/on a vehicle, regardless of OC or CC, I would argue a transit vehicle operator might also want to see a CPL before allowing you on the vehicle. There are no firm rules or laws on this matter that I am aware of though.

13) Where can the latest edition of the Washington Gun Rights Pamphlet be found?
http://www.washingtongunrights.com/ocdo/wgr.pdf

14) Is there a list of gun friendly businesses? Yes, Friend or Foe is a website you can plug in a zip code or city and find those pro businesses. Green is pro / red is anti.
http://www.friendorfoe.us/

15) Where can I see a list of all available training bulletins from law enforcement agencies across Washington?
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads

16) Flying with a handgun
TSA regs: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm
Check the regulations on the airline on which you are traveling, they may have rules against weapons.

17) Gun Ranges and Gun Shops across Washington
http://www.waguns.org/rangemap
http://www.waguns.org/storemap

18) Can I own and use a suppressor? ( RCW 9.41.250) Yes, as long the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law.

19) Carrying while engaging in a outdoor activity (RCW 9.41.060)
(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

20) Do “No Firearm” signs hold the weight of law in Washington State?
No Firearm signs have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in RCW 9.41.300 as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass and could arrest you even if you are within the law.


No license is needed to open carry however it is highly recommended that any person who open carries in the State of Washington acquire a CPL. Washington is a “Shall Issue” state for CPL’s. Meaning that if you meet the requirements in RCW 9.41.070 you will be issued a license within 30 days(resident) and 60 days(non-resident) by law.

This document is in no way legal advice. Consult an attorney on legal matters.
So then my question is... IF Article I, Section 24 of the Washington state Constitution states that "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired," Would any business or business owners rule banning firearms (one carried or concealed) be a violation of ones civil rights? I mean if I am allowed my freedom of speech no matter where I go and a woman is allowed to breastfeed in any business (not that I'm against any of that mind you) and am guaranteed service from a business regardless of my ethnicity, religion, sex, or sexual orientation and any business' attempt to ban such things is a civil rights violation. Wouldn't my Civil right (State and Federal) to bear arms be secured in all business' as well? I mean I shouldn't be expected to give up any of my civil rights in order to conduct business or purchase goods in any restaurant or store, and they are supposedly protected. Then why when it comes to carrying a weapon in defense of myself or the state is it then allowed to be impaired when I walk into a place of business? The Letter of the state constitution states that "The Right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired" so then why is it!? Why is it impaired? This seems to be a clear violation of the State Constitutional rights. If I am wrong please enlighten me.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
90% of your rights end where my private property begins and it doesn't matter if my private property is my home or my business. You have no 1st or 2nd amendment rights on my property. I can kick you out of my store, restaurant or home if I don't like what you say, how you say it, or if you are carrying a firearm. If you don't like my restrictions on my property, then you have every right to leave and go somewhere else.
Unless you have a government granted monopoly for something.....
 

kparker

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
1,327
Location
Tacoma, Washington, USA
I'd love to see a requirement (probably have to be via an amendment to the state constitution) that municipal ownership or financing in ANY degree comes with a "viral" requirement that the state preemption of firearm law applies. I.e. that the slightest degree of municipal ownership or financial participation "infects" the endeavor or facility with "municipalism" as far as preemption goes.

My estimate of the chances of this happening within my lifetime? Pretty much zero... :-(
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,222
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
I am an OC activist in Southern Oregon. I am planning an "Iron Butt" motorcycle ride or 1000 miles in 24 hours (or less) with a requirement to obey posted speeds. I have an Oregon CHL but understand that is not recognized in Washington state.

My understanding is this:

When I cross into Washington state (actually BEFORE crossing the border) I can continue to Open Carry my pistol but must remove the magazine and the round in the chamber while on the motorcycle. When I stop, I can insert the magazine and chamber a round. Back on the motorcycle, I must pull them back out again.

I CAN have the loaded magazine on my side, so long as it is not in the pistol (planning weak side double mag pouch).

If this understanding is correct, I plan to simply go without a chambered round while in Washington and move the weapon mag between the weapon and the pouch when required.
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,671
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
I am an OC activist in Southern Oregon. I am planning an "Iron Butt" motorcycle ride or 1000 miles in 24 hours (or less) with a requirement to obey posted speeds. I have an Oregon CHL but understand that is not recognized in Washington state.

My understanding is this:

When I cross into Washington state (actually BEFORE crossing the border) I can continue to Open Carry my pistol but must remove the magazine and the round in the chamber while on the motorcycle. When I stop, I can insert the magazine and chamber a round. Back on the motorcycle, I must pull them back out again.

I CAN have the loaded magazine on my side, so long as it is not in the pistol (planning weak side double mag pouch).

If this understanding is correct, I plan to simply go without a chambered round while in Washington and move the weapon mag between the weapon and the pouch when required.
When is your motorcycle ride? If you're able to get to to kitsap county at least a month before your ride you can get a WA CPL (kitsap county issues promptly and doesn't jerk people around) and it would be a moot issue. Cowlitz county (north of clark county, where Vancouver is) is also pretty prompt from my understanding. I don't know about clark county or city of Vancouver.

Yes, your idea is legal in Washington. The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 state you cannot carry or place a loaded handgun in a vehicle or carry a concealed handgun on or about your person without a concealed pistol license. So carrying mag well empty on the bike and loaded on foot is perfectly legal.


There is also some exemptions from 9.41.050 see 9.41.060

If you're heading to a place of outdoor recreation you can carry loaded, also if you're an agent of the federal government you can carry loaded, if you're a peace officer in another state is an exemption. If you're a member of any group authorized to purchase or recieve pistols from the United States or state of washington is another exemption. Maybe one of them may apply, maybe not worth looking into.

Btw, if you guys can convince your leg to recognize WAs permit this would be a moot issue. Just saying....
 
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We-the-People

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White City, Oregon, USA
When is your motorcycle ride? If you're able to get to to kitsap county at least a month before your ride you can get a WA CPL (kitsap county issues promptly and doesn't jerk people around) and it would be a moot issue. Cowlitz county (north of clark county, where Vancouver is) is also pretty prompt from my understanding. I don't know about clark county or city of Vancouver.

Yes, your idea is legal in Washington. The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 state you cannot carry or place a loaded handgun in a vehicle or carry a concealed handgun on or about your person without a concealed pistol license. So carrying mag well empty on the bike and loaded on foot is perfectly legal.


There is also some exemptions from 9.41.050 see 9.41.060

If you're heading to a place of outdoor recreation you can carry loaded, also if you're an agent of the federal government you can carry loaded, if you're a peace officer in another state is an exemption. If you're a member of any group authorized to purchase or recieve pistols from the United States or state of washington is another exemption. Maybe one of them may apply, maybe not worth looking into.

Btw, if you guys can convince your leg to recognize WAs permit this would be a moot issue. Just saying....
That's how I read it.

Too far to run up there for a WA CPL and none of the exceptions fit although by my way of thinking going on a 1000 mile/24 hour ride IS outdoor recreation and quite similar to riding a horse, they're even called steel horses sometimes. Alas, the purpose of the trip is to complete the ride, not become a test case so I'll stick with the unloaded while riding method.

I had considered doing it with an AR strapped to the sissy bar but decided that would create a high likelihood of NOT making the time limit. LOL

We're trying to get our legislature to recognize other states permits but the moonbats up north keep putting idiots into office. Every year they try to pass more crap. Just last month we were successful in defeating a proposed local ordinance (our preemption needs to be stronger as well) but getting stuff through at the state is a BEAR.
 

The Macf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Utah
I am an OC activist in Southern Oregon. I am planning an "Iron Butt" motorcycle ride or 1000 miles in 24 hours (or less) with a requirement to obey posted speeds. I have an Oregon CHL but understand that is not recognized in Washington state.

My understanding is this:

When I cross into Washington state (actually BEFORE crossing the border) I can continue to Open Carry my pistol but must remove the magazine and the round in the chamber while on the motorcycle. When I stop, I can insert the magazine and chamber a round. Back on the motorcycle, I must pull them back out again.

I CAN have the loaded magazine on my side, so long as it is not in the pistol (planning weak side double mag pouch).

If this understanding is correct, I plan to simply go without a chambered round while in Washington and move the weapon mag between the weapon and the pouch when required.
Thanks for this. I was wondering exactly that when I come home to visit.

When is your motorcycle ride? If you're able to get to to kitsap county at least a month before your ride you can get a WA CPL (kitsap county issues promptly and doesn't jerk people around) and it would be a moot issue. Cowlitz county (north of clark county, where Vancouver is) is also pretty prompt from my understanding. I don't know about clark county or city of Vancouver.

Yes, your idea is legal in Washington. The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 state you cannot carry or place a loaded handgun in a vehicle or carry a concealed handgun on or about your person without a concealed pistol license. So carrying mag well empty on the bike and loaded on foot is perfectly legal.


There is also some exemptions from 9.41.050 see 9.41.060

If you're heading to a place of outdoor recreation you can carry loaded, also if you're an agent of the federal government you can carry loaded, if you're a peace officer in another state is an exemption. If you're a member of any group authorized to purchase or recieve pistols from the United States or state of washington is another exemption. Maybe one of them may apply, maybe not worth looking into.

Btw, if you guys can convince your leg to recognize WAs permit this would be a moot issue. Just saying....
I guess I'm going to Kitsap county when I get home.

Hi everyone,

First post. Florida resident (with resident CCP) via Edmonds, currently stationed in Utah. I usually drive home a couple times a year. In Utah, I can carry in my vehicle loaded (1 in the chamber) in the attached holster, same when I hit Idaho due to them recognizing my Florida permit. Now once I hit the Washington / Idaho border. I must remove the round in the chamber and the full magazine while driving.

Once I am at my visiting place, I can carry openly as long as the pistol is UNLOADED ( (14) "Loaded" means: (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;) So pistol in holster carried openly, full mags in a weak side holster.

As soon I get home, I plan on visiting a sheriff to get my CCP so I don't have to worry about this.

Do you think this is plainly visible?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/27/ca2caa8f14671f03e88b4979b8d836ee.jpg

 
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sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,690
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Whatcom County
That's how I read it.

Too far to run up there for a WA CPL and none of the exceptions fit although by my way of thinking going on a 1000 mile/24 hour ride IS outdoor recreation and quite similar to riding a horse, they're even called steel horses sometimes. Alas, the purpose of the trip is to complete the ride, not become a test case so I'll stick with the unloaded while riding method.

I had considered doing it with an AR strapped to the sissy bar but decided that would create a high likelihood of NOT making the time limit. LOL

We're trying to get our legislature to recognize other states permits but the moonbats up north keep putting idiots into office. Every year they try to pass more crap. Just last month we were successful in defeating a proposed local ordinance (our preemption needs to be stronger as well) but getting stuff through at the state is a BEAR.
When and how for MSG and I OC on our bikes quite regularly.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,222
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
When and how for MSG and I OC on our bikes quite regularly.
No time frame as the Iron Butt 1000/24hrs ride is an individual ride and you don't file any paperwork until you've completed it. Then they use your receipts to verify your milege and time, as well as that you didn't break the speed limit, and issue your "goodies".....certificate, stickers, patches, etc are all available, some have an extra cost.

The limiting factors for me are that the bike is prepped (aux fuel installed, good tires but not brand new), the weather is dry and not too cold (difficult when riding to Bellingham WA), and I am physically ready.

I have missed this season (probably) due to a broken wrist that has just healed to the point of being able to ride distances. Still need to build the aux fuel system as well.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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Messages
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Valhalla
Note that posts #166 & #167 were delayed in appearing here - waiting for moderation.

Please review those posts - a newbie has some questions.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
When and how for MSG and I OC on our bikes quite regularly.
This is Truth!
But we also have CPLs(conc pist lic) and that covers it. The AR idea is good, thought about that myself. A scabbard and an AR pistol as long guns cannot be loaded.

The firearm in the car is acceptable if not loaded (sans CPL) but is a no go if any round inserted. Not a bad rig, but I want mine on my hip.
 

The Macf

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Sep 8, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Utah
BTW, I was a little confused on the wording of the RCW. You can OC fully loaded just not in your car without permit. RCW 9.41.050 "A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol " I took the carry portion to include carrying while on the street out of the vehicle.
 

The Macf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Utah
The gun can be concealed in the vehicle - just not loaded nor concealed ON THE PERSON inside a vehicle without a CPL. So whether or not the under the steering wheel holster is concealed or not, it's legal because it is not on your person. In addition, fully loaded open carry outside the vehicle is legal without a CPL.
Thank you.
 
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