Watch out in Tyson's Corner Mall!

[Pardoner]

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HankT wrote:

Citizen, LEO 229 is completely correct.

I checked with my magistrate contact and learned this: A letter or other proof requirement is not mandatory. The person with authority over the property must first notifysomeone that they are forbidded (banned)from entering the property. This can be done in person, via phone call, letter, etc. If that person then comes onto the property, the person with authority may visit the magistrate, complete a criminal complaint, and swearthe circumstances under oathto the magistrate. This would apply to commercial and/or private property.

So, it appears that once a person is "banned" from a property and he is given a documentable notice of the banning, then he is subject to arrest if he ever returns to the property and is observed by the property owner or his personnel. Additionally, a banned person just showingup (trespassing) for a little while but then slinking away before the cops come is no bar to hisbeing issued a summons--if the property owner wants to swear to the trespass.

That should keep all but the most knuckle-headed banned goofs away from a given property. I wonder how often the malls excercise this procedure? I also wonder what is the purpose of a mall deciding to "ban" a person for a specific time period, i.e., 5 years. Someone here reported being banned from a mall for that duration a while back, but why 5 years? Why not 2? Or 10? Is that banning period the sole discretion of the property owner? And can the owner be totally discriminatory about how it selects the period?

Somewhat incorrect. Once a person is "banned" either verbally or in writing, they are then subject to arrest/summons once observed on the property.

When we took someone into custody for a minor offense and decided to "ban" them, they were photographed and signed a form informing them that they were "banned" for a period of 1 year. Most returned and were arrested well before the year for tresspassing and/or other offenses.

The photographs were all kept in a large bound book so other officers could become familiar with "banned" individuals.

If someone then returned and we had contact with them, we would check our list of "banned" individuals or we may have noticed that they had been "banned", a summons was issued. We have had numerous individuals who were "banned" who we later attempted to arrest who did escape, but a trip to the magistrate with a copy of our form was all that was needed. The form isn't mecessary, but makes things a lot easier when court time comes up.

 

[LEO 229]

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HankT wrote:

So, it appears that once a person is "banned" from a property and he is given a documentable notice of the banning, then he is subject to arrest if he ever returns to the property and is observed by the property owner or his personnel. Additionally, a banned person just showingup (trespassing) for a little while but then slinking away before the cops come is no bar to hisbeing issued a summons--if the property owner wants to swear to the trespass.

That should keep all but the most knuckle-headed banned goofs away from a given property. I wonder how often the malls excercise this procedure? I also wonder what is the purpose of a mall deciding to "ban" a person for a specific time period, i.e., 5 years. Someone here reported being banned from a mall for that duration a while back, but why 5 years? Why not 2? Or 10? Is that banning period the sole discretion of the property owner? And can the owner be totally discriminatory about how it selects the period?

I do not recall any expiration period by default. The duration is up to the person with authority and I can only imagine is based on how upset they were about the incident.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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HankT wrote:

...SNIP
Is that banning period the sole discretion of the property owner?  And can the owner be totally discriminatory about how it selects the period?

The letters are generally good for one year, but the owner can pick a longer period if he desires.

Just for the record, even with all of this it is hard to get a conviction for trespassing.

Regards

 

[Pardoner]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

HankT wrote:

...SNIP
Is that banning period the sole discretion of the property owner? And can the owner be totally discriminatory about how it selects the period?

The letters are generally good for one year, but the owner can pick a longer period if he desires.

Just for the record, even with all of this it is hard to get a conviction for trespassing.

Regards

We only did one year due to policy and no problems at all getting convictions with the letter on file in the hampton roads area.

Without the letter it was kinda hit and miss.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Pardoner wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

HankT wrote:

...SNIP
Is that banning period the sole discretion of the property owner?  And can the owner be totally discriminatory about how it selects the period?

The letters are generally good for one year, but the owner can pick a longer period if he desires.

Just for the record, even with all of this it is hard to get a conviction for trespassing.

Regards

We only did one year due to policy and no problems at all getting convictions with the letter on file in the hampton roads area. 

Without the letter it was kinda hit and miss.

The judges up here are less inclined to convict. We even had pictures of one guy actually trespassing, we had the letter and the receipt from the delivery, along with 3 witnesses to the trespass. We still did not get a conviction.

The second time we took the guy to court, we had a local LEO as a witness and STILL no conviction.

Of course up here they are taking easement on peoples property to build hiking trails.

Regards

 

[Citizen]

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I wouldn't want to be the guy upon who they first increase the conviction rate.

 

[Smurfologist]

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I was just in Springfield Mall on TuesdayOCing, and, I entered where I always do.....near the movie theater on the side where the Target is. I have not seen any signs posted (although, someone on this board mention that there are signs posted "somewhere" but, I can't recall where). I went to Kay Jewelers to pick up my ring. I am just waiting for the day I am asked to leave the mall because I am OCing. I will never spend another dollar in there ever (and, I will express this to the owner and anyone else that will listen). You have people that have been stabbed in this mall, people are getting shot at in malls, robbed in the parking lots of malls, etc., and the owners don't want people to carry (OC or CC)........They really need to rethink their thoughts about this in VA!!!

2nd Amendment..........Use it.........Or, lose it!!:X

 

[possumboy]

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I was at Springfield Tuesday (4/4)night to watch a late movie with a friend. We exited at the movie exit - the movie exit right at the doors - and a bunch of kids that were just standing around started following us. I uncovered to get my keys out of my pocket and they immediately turned and RAN back into the mall.

I was a little worried about someone accusing me of bandishing, because of the timing - I was just getting my keys. Normally I can get to my pockets without uncovering, but I was wearing a bowling shirt that night that barely concealed. If anyone looked, they would have known. I do thinkthose kids were planning something.

 

[HankT]

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possumboy wrote:

I uncovered to get my keys out of my pocket and they immediately turned and RAN back into the mall.

I was a little worried about someone accusing me of bandishing, because of the timing - I was just getting my keys.

Lucky you needed to get your keys at exactly the right moment...

How old were the kids and how many were there?

 

[possumboy]

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HankT wrote:

possumboy wrote:

I uncovered to get my keys out of my pocket and they immediately turned and RAN back into the mall.

I was a little worried about someone accusing me of bandishing, because of the timing - I was just getting my keys.

Lucky you needed to get your keys at exactly the right moment...

How old were the kids and how many were there?

I would guess-amate they were between 16-20 in age. Four (4) broke off from the group of nine (9) to follow us. All ran back into the mall.

 

[HankT]

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possumboy wrote:

HankT wrote:

possumboy wrote:

I uncovered to get my keys out of my pocket and they immediately turned and RAN back into the mall.

I was a little worried about someone accusing me of bandishing, because of the timing - I was just getting my keys.

Lucky you needed to get your keys at exactly the right moment...

How old were the kids and how many were there?

I would guess-amate they were between 16-20 in age. Four (4) broke off from the group of nine (9) to follow us. All ran back into the mall.

Were you able to give good descriptions to the cops or mall security when you reported the group and their intentions?

 

[possumboy]

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I should have taken the time to report them. It was closed to Midnight and I wanted to get home.

I didn't think the Mall cared much anyway to allow a group of 9 people to be hanging around at an entrance that late anyway. I also figured the Mall would give me more crap over me having a gun than they would this group.

I cannot prove intentions, so they didn't really do anything wrong. No threats or anything. Yes, the situation leads me to believe they would have done something, but they didn't.

 

[Tess]

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I frequently carry openly at Springfield mall, with no problems so far. I've yet to see any sign prohibiting it.

We did have a member who was asked to leave Springfield Mall for carrying, though. I'm pretty sure it was XDOwner, and I haven't seen him around the boards in a while. You might be able to search his previous post.

 

[possumboy]

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Without searching...

The person was asked about a license. It seems that Springfield's policy is to allow someone to carry if they have a concealed carry license. He only got this information after talking with multiple security personal.

The intial reponse from security was that he needed to leave. I even remember one of them saying "I am the law here".

Because of that, when I go, I CC in the mall and OC if I go into one of the restuarants that it is required. I do not go there to hang out or walk around. It is quicker for me to get in and out with what I need. I do try not to go there, but because of the convenience of the location, I do.

 

[Smurfologist]

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possumboy wrote:

Without searching...

The person was asked about a license. It seems that Springfield's policy is to allow someone to carry if they have a concealed carry license. He only got this information after talking with multiple security personal.

The initial response from security was that he needed to leave. I even remember one of them saying "I am the law here".

I do not go there to hang out or walk around. It is quicker for me to get in and out with what I need. I do try not to go there, but because of the convenience of the location, I do.

I also remember the same post (without researching). "I am the law here." That was classic!! Possumboy, I have afew questions for you:

1) "It seems that Springfield's policy is to allow someone to carry if they have a concealed carry license." - Do you mean that Springfield Mall Security (they) will only let you OC if you have a CCW? Or, after being challenged when OCing, they will only let you CC only if you have a CCW (if you don't have a CCW,they make you leave when OCing)?

2) "Because of that, when I go, I CC in the mall and OC if I go into one of the restuarants that it is required." - Have you had any problems inSpringfield Mall OCing in any of their restaurants (I'm just wondering because I have only eaten in a pizza place there where they do not sell alcohol)?

I do the same as Tess, I OC all the time, and, I have never been challenged by any Springfield Mall Security personnel at all (even after walking by several). I have even been in both "gun-unfriendly" AMC Theaters OCing without being challenged. I normally go in, do what I am there to do, then leave (I do not go to hang out there either). Like I said before, If I do ever get challenged, that will be the last time I spend another dollar in that place. There are plenty enough malls around. I will just have to find out which ones are gun-friendly. Any clues as to which ones are (if any)?

2nd Amendment......Use it........Or, lose it!!:X

 

[beradcee]

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I actually used to work in Springfield Mall, only fora little while though. And I don't remember seeing any postings that prohibit firearms. I was kind of curious when I read BobCav's thread about the eye doctor. Seems to me that this would be the only gun-friendly mall in NOVA if it is allowed. I know that Fair Oaks, Spotsylvania, and Potomac Mills are all gun-unfriendly. Why anyone would go in Potomac Mills for any reason is beyond me anyways.

 

[Smurfologist]

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beradcee wrote:

I actually used to work in Springfield Mall, only fora little while though. And I don't remember seeing any postings that prohibit firearms. I was kind of curious when I read BobCav's thread about the eye doctor. Seems to me that this would be the only gun-friendly mall in NOVA if it is allowed. I know that Fair Oaks, Spotsylvania, and Potomac Mills are all gun-unfriendly. Why anyone would go in Potomac Mills for any reason is beyond me anyways.

What about Landmark Mall in Alexandria, VA or Military Circle Mall in Norfolk, VA?

2nd Amendment........Use it.........Or, lose it!!:X

 

[Dutch Uncle]

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I honestly don't think there are "gun-friendly" malls, just gun-neutral and anti-gun varieties. The large corporations that own these things generally don't want the sheeple to be frightened or the gerbils to be angered. As long as the place isn't posted, and no one gets upset, we can just carry there like anyplace else. I personlly don't OC in such places because of all the people milling around and nearly bumping into me at every turn. I prefer the CC option. JMHO

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Dutch Uncle wrote:

I honestly don't think there are "gun-friendly" malls, just gun-neutral and anti-gun varieties.  The large corporations that own these things generally don't want the sheeple to be frightened or the gerbils to be angered.  As long as the place isn't posted, and no one gets upset, we can just carry there like anyplace else.  I personlly don't OC in such places because of all the people milling around and nearly bumping into me at every turn.  I prefer the CC option.  JMHO

This is an interesting view well supported by the facts. At Manassas Mall there are a few signs posted in not so obvious corners of the mall, that would lead one to believe that weapons are not allowed. However, if you read it very carefully you will find that only weapons that are carried with the "intent to do harm" are prohibited. In my view this is about as friendly as it gets and it is ambiguous at best.

Regards