What would YOU do?

[shotcop]

Shoot to stop the threat, if he dies as a result..Oh Well! Discussions of head v other vitals is moot (especially if you don't in this arena often and haven't trained for it) the best thing to do unless he is actively killing people is to be a good witness as to height weight clothing tats etc. That's advise from and even to cops off duty, and what we ourselves are trained to do. You're in reg clothes too and might just get taken out as a perp!
PS since the discussion includes I guy you might try to apprehend instead of just kill for a change, how many of you carry handcuffs or other restraining devices? If he drops the gun and walks off you can't shoot him, oh, not trained to apprehend. maybe you should stay out of it unless real killings going on. Lots of folks posting about all the extra mags they carry as if it's going to be a running gun battle but never consider what if he gives up? How do I hold him til help arrives? It doesn't take long for a BG to decide to just leave, then the balls in your court. Just sayin......

 

[billv]

Detain him? Really?

Here in TX, a friend was in a jury pool for someone that detained a person. In this case, a gangbanger used a gun to stop someone he had a beef with. The gangbanger was charged with kidnapping (among other things) since he kept the person from leaving the premises.

Moral - if BG is no threat to you or others, don't detain, be a good witness, take photos/videos/audios if possible and let LEO's do the detaining.

BTW, my friend was not selected for the jury.

 

[eye95]

Here in TX, a friend was in a jury pool for someone that detained a person. In this case, a gangbanger used a gun to stop someone he had a beef with. The gangbanger was charged with kidnapping (among other things) since he kept the person from leaving the premises.

Moral - if BG is no threat to you or others, don't detain, be a good witness, take photos/videos/audios if possible and let LEO's do the detaining.

BTW, my friend was not selected for the jury.

If he is no threat to anyone, he is not a BG. That he is committing a crime is what makes him a BG. In Alabama, if he is committing a crime, you can arrest him and use reasonhble force to detain him.

 

[MedicineMan]

Oh no I was not being sarcastic - not even slightly - not by the most remote stretch of your fertile imagination. I say imagination because you purport that I said something that I did not even imply. I did NOT say "wound, winging, shooting their gun hand" or anything of the kind.

If I am by circumstances forced to draw and I do not shoot because the threat was sufficient to stop the BG, I have effectively used my defensive tool. If on the other hand I am forced fire to save my life or that of another, my shot(s) will be directed to stop the BG as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Being right (in your opinion) is not a get out of jail free card. In most states (all?) causing the death of another is excusable or justifiable after committing murder or homicide. I for one will not go on a public forum and indicate that I am predisposed to taking a human life when I am just as easily capable of stating that I would likely do what was necessary to stop such an individual.

There have been instances where such words have come back to haunt the speaker and their case was severely damaged by such utterances - indeed some of them have ended up with reduced housing requirements for less.

It is simple really, do everything right at least 100% of the time, have a good lawyer, be prepared to spend lots of money and shoot to stop, never say anything else.

While you are at it, run these two schools of thought (choice of words) by your favorite criminal defense attorney and see what he/she says. Then come back and reread my initial statement and let me know if you still find fault with it.

BTW - this has been addressed countless times here on OCDO with an overwhelming preponderance of members understanding the wisdom of the words "shoot to stop".

OK.

An "AHA" moment here.

What you mean is that we aim for "vitals" and "center mass" instead of "kill zones", and we have stopped using the term "shoot to kill" in favor of "shoot to stop".

Got the "jist" now.
Legal ramifications, and "less lethal" verbiage.

 

[Grapeshot]

OK.

An "AHA" moment here.

What you mean is that we aim for "vitals" and "center mass" instead of "kill zones", and we have stopped using the term "shoot to kill" in favor of "shoot to stop".

Got the "jist" now.
Legal ramifications, and "less lethal" verbiage.

The verbiage is indeed very selective. I would aim to stop a threat in the most effective and quickest way possible. The caliber of my carry gun and ammunition is selected with that in mind. I hope to never be a part of taking the life of someone, but if it happens it will not be of my choosing - not my intent. My position is defensive, not aggressive.

 

[ixtow]

@ OP

I'd be mocked endlessly for my AK Pistol, but I'd be damn confident I could take that shot when all the 'normal' gun carriers have to question it.

 

[Grapeshot]

@ OP

I'd be mocked endlessly for my AK Pistol, but I'd be damn confident I could take that shot when all the 'normal' gun carriers have to question it.

At least you would not stand alone. :lol:

​

That said, gal. milk jugs at 100 yds with 1911? Every day, any day, but that is hardly a normal defensive distance.

 

[eye95]

...That said, gal. milk jugs at 100 yds with 1911? Every day, any day, but that is hardly a normal defensive distance.

I dunno. I was walking through a rough neighborhood when I spotted some gallon milk jugs hanging around a dumpster, clearly up to no good. I double-checked my 1911 just to reassure myself. Fortunately for them, they didn't try anything. They stood their ground, and I confidently walked by.

I couple of jug thugs bought themselves another day.

 

[Grapeshot]

I dunno. I was walking through a rough neighborhood when I spotted some gallon milk jugs hanging around a dumpster, clearly up to no good. I double-checked my 1911 just to reassure myself. Fortunately for them, they didn't try anything. They stood their ground, and I confidently walked by.

I couple of jug thugs bought themselves another day.

Are you still awake? :lol:

 

[TechnoWeenie]

This months long thread has resolved two things...

I need to train more in high stress simulated scenarios....

I need a crimson trace for my S&W....

Training will close the gap, with a lethal situation resolved by 'put red dot on chest, pull trigger'..

 

[Grapeshot]

This months long thread has resolved two things...

I need to train more in high stress simulated scenarios....

I need a crimson trace for my S&W....

Training will close the gap, with a lethal situation resolved by 'put red dot on chest, pull trigger'..

Love my Crimson Trace grips - puts "sight acquisition" in point shooting.
The switch is "on" all of the time - normal grip activates it, otherwise takes a conscious act to not turn on the red dot. It works for me.

 

[since9]

Training will close the gap, with a lethal situation resolved by 'put red dot on chest, pull trigger'..

I'd also recommend taking an advanced firearms class, one that includes awareness training, weapons retention, and takedown techniques. I've had them, years ago, and it's quite rare that my radar warning receiver starts pinging, but when it does, I know it instantly, and usually find myself staring into the eyes of someone who is staring back with murderous intent. It's only happened twice in the last year, both times as a drug deal was going on in the parking lot of a local convenience store.

I never get involved, as I don't like becoming someone's target, though I may note a license plate number and the time, and call it in later. If they're so inclined, the police can review the tapes, find any actions warranting probable cause, and take things from there.

It's about suriving, not putting on a uniform, attending an academy, and becoming an LEO.

 

[Grapeshot]

As a general comment -

I never state on a public forum, what I specifically might be induced to do regarding use of deadly force. There are too many variables and unknowns + more importantly I will not be "guilty" of indicating any thought that [strike]could[/strike] would come back to bite me.

What I think and how I will react will change each time according to circumstances. That said, I have no predisposition to becoming a combatant.

 

[230therapy]

If folks were not allowed to have a gun this stuff would not happen....the murderous BG would have had to use a knife or baseball bat....much harder to kill with a knife or a baseball bat....just to get that out of the way.

So you believe that the 30+ ban on handguns in DC was good policy? This from a guy who carries?

It seems to me that you are an enemy of liberty.

 

[Grapeshot]

So you believe that the 30+ ban on handguns in DC was good policy? This from a guy who carries?

It seems to me that you are an enemy of liberty.

I think that was more tongue in check than thumb in posterior. :uhoh:

 

[eye95]

I think that was more tongue in check than thumb in posterior. :uhoh:

If he puts his thumb in his cheek, I'm leaving!

 

[230therapy]

If he puts his thumb in his cheek, I'm leaving!

Heh...too funny!!