March on Washington 07-04-2013

[Grapeshot]

Originally Posted by OC for ME

--snipped--

1. The word 'overtly' is requested to be added to Rule 15 immediately prior to the word advocating.

2. A caveat statement is requested to be developed and included in Rule 15 to clarify when it is appropriate to break a unconstitutional law vs. repealing it in the applicable legislature or defeating it in the courts.

Not likely.

Which part is not likely?

Both.

If the administrator were to respond, IMO he would say that the change was not necessary or desired. Expect that the rule will stand as it is.

 

[OC for ME]

Both.

If the administrator were to respond, IMO he would say that the change was not necessary or desired. Expect that the rule will stand as it is.

I included the 'snipped' part in my 'What...' question, you did not exclude it until now. Thank you and +1 to you Sir.

 

[Mike]

I will say it again. We are NOT SUPPORTING THIS MARCH!

There are a LOT of problems with this event, starting with the fact that it will expose attendees to arrest in both Virginia and DC. Yes ... that's right ... some attendees may be breaking the law in Virginia as well depending upon whether they have a permit recognized by Virginia and the capacity of the firearm they choose to bring.

--------------
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.


It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.


The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
---------------

Moving beyond that is the fact the Adam Kokesh comes with a lot of baggage. See this post at FreedomOutpost.com for more details. http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/a...ntal-instability-has-muslim-brotherhood-ties/

However, this has generated a lot of discussion of open carry and how draconian the District's laws are and I believe it would be ludicrous for us to try and pretend the discussion isn't happening.


John

I agree with John - all this march will do, if executed, is build more jurisprudence against the right to carry outside the home. Seriously, hard facts make bad law - they really do.

A better option would be to hold a family friendly open carry picnic where it is legal to do so.

 

[TheEggman]

Why You Must NOT Attend the Planned Armed March on DC

Why You Must REJECT The Planned Armed March on Washington



We, the sane, responsible gun owners of the United States of America universally and publicly reject the concept of the proposed, illegal, armed march upon Washington DC, planned by Adam Kokesh, a militant, traitorous, revolutionary instigator, scheduled for Independence Day, 4 July 2013.

More ...

 

[WalkingWolf]

While I am not attending, and it may not be a bright idea. I just have to wonder, why do people attempt to tell other people what to do? If they want to march, let them march. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. I find the hypocrisy of some who claim to be for liberty, and then go about attempting control of others to be almost funny. If it was not so pathetic it would be funny.

 

[OC for ME]

When did you appoint yourself the spokesman for sane, responsible gun owners of the United States of America?

 

[davidmcbeth]

When did you appoint yourself the spokesman for sane, responsible gun owners of the United States of America?

Yes, and at what point would he carry his arms in public like this? Never?

Willing to wait 70 yrs for the courts?

 

[FreeInAZ]

While picnics are really nice, pretty sure they would garner little to no media attention. Also when do you think the authorities in D.C. would stop abusing the 2A via a picnic barrage? 2199, the year 3000 A.D.?

Kind of like saying black folks should have just held picnics to protest their abuses. Something tells me if that was the case, they'd still be forced to the back of the bus.

 

[JmE]

Kind of like saying black folks should have just held picnics to protest their abuses. Something tells me if that was the case, they'd still be forced to the back of the bus.

Pretty much.

Only belligerents have rights. Individuals that fail to assert their rights will eventually lose them.

 

[Thundar]

I will say it again. We are NOT SUPPORTING THIS MARCH!

There are a LOT of problems with this event, starting with the fact that it will expose attendees to arrest in both Virginia and DC. Yes ... that's right ... some attendees may be breaking the law in Virginia as well depending upon whether they have a permit recognized by Virginia and the capacity of the firearm they choose to bring.

--------------
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.


It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.


The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
---------------

Moving beyond that is the fact the Adam Kokesh comes with a lot of baggage. See this post at FreedomOutpost.com for more details. http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/a...ntal-instability-has-muslim-brotherhood-ties/

However, this has generated a lot of discussion of open carry and how draconian the District's laws are and I believe it would be ludicrous for us to try and pretend the discussion isn't happening.


John

John,

Not argument with your decision not to support the march.

Significant consternation with the Virginia law reason for not supporting the march. The logical conclusion to your reasoning is that OCDO cannot support any open carry events in Virginia because of this law.

I honestly think you should have said we do not endorse this because there are laws in DC. And by the way if you are still going to this event and carrying a loaded semi automatic firearm with a threaded barrel, a folding stock or a twenty round (or more) magazine be aware of this stupid Virginia law.

 

[eye95]

While I will not be participating in this march because it is ILLEGAL and, IMO, incredibly stupid, I don't blindly follow anybody or anything.

In that light, I feel compelled to ask the following of TheEggman:

Do you have a citation for the Kokesh quotation at your links? If he has in fact uttered THOSE words in reference to THIS march, then that should be reason enough for anyone not to participate in this march.

Have any of the groups mentioned in the declaration actually signed off on it? In particular, is the VCDL name being used with the permission of VCDL?

Next, folks on both sides of the question are calling each other traitors and questioning each other's patriotism. I think that is despicable on the part of the folks on both sides participating in the name-calling.

While I agree with the sentiment of the declaration (apart from name-calling), I wonder about the legitimacy of its claims of supporting groups and its quotation of Kokesh.

 

[cyras21]

I subscribe to Kokesh's youtube. While I don't view each and every post, I highly doubt that those are his quotes. In fact, I've seen a video where he stated a possible alternative would be for everyone to march to the DC boundary and ONLY Kokesh would cross offering himself as a sacrificial lamb. He HAS said repeatedly that this is to be a peaceful march and any participant is to succumb to law enforcement if an arrest were to be make.

Only history will tell if Kokesh is a patriot or not. I'm sure many of the founding fathers were labeled similarly to Kokesh for their actions.

 

[eye95]

Kokesh DID say those words. I found them. They are in an interview with Alex Jones.

However as presented on the TheEggman-linked site, it is a bit deceptive:

“This is an armed revolt against the American government. Make no mistake about it. We are going with the aim of overthrowing the government.”

At 6:15 in the interview, Kokesh says, “This is an armed revolt against the American government. Make no mistake about it.”

At 11:25, he says, "We are going with the aim of overthrowing the government."

While I don't believe that the misrepresentation was material, it still was blatant dishonesty. It calls into question whether other claims made at the TheEggman-linked site are entirely honest.

That being said, it is important to note that Kokesh DID make THESE two statements in relation to THIS march: “This is an armed revolt against the American government. Make no mistake about it,” and, "We are going with the aim of overthrowing the government."

These statements alone should be sufficient to make rational people choose not to participate.

 

[RockyMtnScotsman]

that's ok, go sign another petition... that'll show 'em!!

 

[Grapeshot]

Pretty much.

Only belligerents have rights. Individuals that fail to assert their rights will eventually lose them.

Everyone has rights - rights are not dependent upon one's attitude. Asserting, defending, protecting rights is what we do.

 

[eye95]

..

 

[skidmark]

A link to the page has been sent to VCDL for review and possible action. It ought to be fun watching the page to see what changes are made.

Mr. TheEggman - How come I did not get a copy of the memo that said you were appointed as the voice for "We, the sane, responsible gun owners of the United States of America"? I check my mailboxes several times every day. I also check to see if the spam filters have caught something that should have gone through. There's just no record of that memo arriving. I want to know why I was left off the distribution list.

BTW - presuming Kokesh does not pierce the boundaries of Arlington National Cemetary, his march will be legal on the Virginia half of the Memorial Bridge; Chief Lanier has said she intends to meet the marchers at the boundary of DC. If Kokesh is serious about stopping and turning around as soon as they meet armed resistance, it will be a very short march.

stay safe.

 

[Grapeshot]

John,

Not argument with your decision not to support the march.

Significant consternation with the Virginia law reason for not supporting the march. The logical conclusion to your reasoning is that OCDO cannot support any open carry events in Virginia because of this law.

I honestly think you should have said we do not endorse this because there are laws in DC. And by the way if you are still going to this event and carrying a loaded semi automatic firearm with a threaded barrel, a folding stock or a twenty round (or more) magazine be aware of this stupid Virginia law.

I think it is obvious that John sees potential problems on both sides of the border.

I do not follow your "logical conclusion" to the same end.

 

[skidmark]

John,

....

Significant consternation with the Virginia law reason for not supporting the march. The logical conclusion to your reasoning is that OCDO cannot support any open carry events in Virginia because of this law.

....

The law restricts the carry of center-fire firearms having a certain capacity, with the possession of a CHP as an affirmative defense. The march is billed as a LONG GUN march. As such, it is outside the boundaries of OCDO except as John and Mike have allowed discussion of the the politics and philosophy of the matter.

I did not see Mike saying that because of § 18.2-287.4. OCDO could not support the march. I saw the citation as a means of reminding anybody that decides to show up that they need to keep the requirement for a CHP in mind if their long gun is carried "with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered". I read it as a "don't screw up" PSA.

stay safe.

OCDO has supported , and even encouraged, participation in events centered around the lawful open carry of a holstered handgun.

 

[PFC HALE]

that's ok, go sign another petition... that'll show 'em!!

yep those petitions will move mountains after nobody reads them or they get filed in the round folder...

somehow we need to fight back with an equivalent force against our tyrannical government in a manner that will amass everyone but not cause them to be jailed or lose everything.