Britain deploys permanently armed police in London

[saveyourself]

imported post

Cheers Grapeshot. The eldest daughter is 8, so this could be promising.

3 days in the park 2 days at the range.

The wife was betterthan me at putting a double-tap on the target at a range we used to go to. I think it was the first place I took her after we initially met!

America is looking better and better

 

[totes6]

imported post

UKexcop wrote:

SNIP
One last thought, how many US citizens who possess firearms are actually part of a 'well-regulated militia'? You must have a damned big army!

By the Milita act of 1792 every able bodied male citizen from the age of 18 to 45 is a member of the militia. So yes we do have a large army. And to be honest after seeing some of the women I know shoot, I would be more afraid of them then some of my male counterparts. It's uncanny how fast that the X-ring disappears when you hand some of my female friends a gun.

Remember, behind every blade of grass in the USA, there is a rifle.

 

[saveyourself]

imported post

totes6 wrote:

UKexcop wrote:

SNIP
One last thought, how many US citizens who possess firearms are actually part of a 'well-regulated militia'? You must have a damned big army!

By the Milita act of 1792 every able bodied male citizen from the age of 18 to 45 is a member of the militia. So yes we do have a large army. And to be honest after seeing some of the women I know shoot, I would be more afraid of them then some of my male counterparts. It's uncanny how fast that the X-ring disappears when you hand some of my female friends a gun.

Remember, behind every blade of grass in the USA, there is a rifle.

My wife is a good example ofthe x ring exterminator:lol:

"Behind every blade of grass in the USA, there is a rifle" wasn't that some Jap admirals reply to the Jap ruler when he foolishly considered invading the US? It makes me giggle whenever I imagine some nutter contemplating that:shock:

 

[Old Grump]

imported post

UKexcop wrote:

If I lived in the USA rather than the UK, where youare 3 times more likely to be murdered and 25 times more likely to be murdered with a firearm, I'd probably want to be armed too!

Of course, no law will completely prevent the carrying of firearms by criminals, but putting millions more of them into circulation is hardly likely to help improve things. The fact that some do still carry guns doesn't mean that the law doesn't work, any more than the huge number of homicides in the USA means that you should scrap the homicide laws as ineffective.

Time to read Kleck and Lott instead of watching the evening news. Before you tell us about the increase in crime where gun carry is allowed you should read them first. Look them up, it isn't hard. You will be flabbergasted to discover that most gun murders take place between criminal vs criminal and is usually over drugs.

Less than 1% of the good guys guns get taken from them by the hardened criminal, another cherished myth blown out of the water. Less than 25% of the time a gun is displayed will there be shots fired and less than 3% of those incidents result in the criminal exchanging gun fire with the defender. So much for being a bunch of blood thirsty heathens.

Lets face it my friend, the only difference between you and your society and me and my society is 2983 Miles (5580 Kilometers). (New York City and London)

Well that and there are more of us.

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

UKexcop hasn't posted since Mar 25th, 2010 08:40 pm.

Similar to other low post count drive-byes, he apparently couldn't deal with facts and truths vs his party line distortion.

He was entertaining/good practice for a while though.

Yata hey

 

[groats]

imported post

Yet he was ignorant of his own history.
The very word Militia comes from that little country called "England" - all the way back to Anglo/Saxon times - when the militia was defined as "all freemen between the ages of 15 and 60". They were expected to be armed.

 

[saveyourself]

imported post

He also denied the success of our UKarmed populace up untill as recently as 1953.

I guess it has to be remembered his previous occupation (police force) enjoy their monopoly of force, political influence (via APCO and other unelected bodies), very generous salaries, early retirement, protected top drawer pension becauseour overbearing state rely on his like to control us plebs.

 

[marshaul]

imported post

saveyourself wrote:

He also denied the success of our UK armed populace up untill as recently as 1953.

I guess it has to be remembered his previous occupation (police force) enjoy their monopoly of force, political influence (via APCO and other unelected bodies),  very generous salaries, early retirement, protected top drawer pension because our overbearing state rely on his like to control us plebs.

You, sir, have hit the nail on the head.

 

[old dog]

imported post

Given recent news accounts of fearless police officers in Britain (one, a gay cop harassing a street preacher; another, the elderly gentleman who was told his red, white and blue political sign had to change lest it offend someone) perhaps UKexcop is too ashamed to continue.

I've raised this issue before but it occurs to me that your police establishment is purely and simply out of control and woefully out of touch. Whatever happened to the movie image of the decent, trustworthy constable? Was he always a myth?

 

[UKexcop]

imported post

Just got bored with beating my head against the brick walls in here!

Continue to enjoy your fantasy world where square-jawed straight-shooting citizens regularly disperse dangerous crowds of rapists and muggers. Don't worry about the regular massacres that fill your news, bulletins.Ignore the numbers of children killed by playing with legal guns. Forget that your murder rate is almost4 times ours.Try to pretend that your violent crime rates, which only reflect serious assaults, are lower than ours which (ridiculouslyI agree) include even verbal threats.
The main reason for your falling property crime rate is not gun-toting vigilantes, but the three strikes law which can get you life for stealing a pair of trainers. Although the United States represents less than 5% of the world's population, over 25% of the people incarcerated around the world are housed in the American prison system. It probably detersmany but also means that, by having by far the highest proportion in the world of your population in prison there are fewer criminals about to commit property crimes.You beat China by a long way in that respect. It works, but you think that's a just society? The federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, trousers, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armour; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. And we thought that you'd abolished slavery!

For the last time, you may need guns to defend yourselves from the society you have brought upon yourselves but this post is about Britain and we don't. We can be a violent people, which is why arming a basically unarmed society would not reduce the dangers but increase them. It's how we do manage to have a largely unarmed police force and a generally tranquil and free society.

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

UKexcop wrote:

Just got bored with beating my head against the brick walls in here!

Continue to enjoy your fantasy world where square-jawed straight-shooting citizens regularly disperse dangerous crowds of rapists and muggers. Don't worry about the regular massacres that fill your news, bulletins.Ignore the numbers of children killed by playing with legal guns. Forget that your murder rate is almost4 times ours.Try to pretend that your violent crime rates, which only reflect serious assaults, are lower than ours which (ridiculouslyI agree) include even verbal threats.
The main reason for your falling property crime rate is not gun-toting vigilantes, but the three strikes law which can get you life for stealing a pair of trainers. Although the United States represents less than 5% of the world's population, over 25% of the people incarcerated around the world are housed in the American prison system. It probably detersmany but also means that, by having by far the highest proportion in the world of your population in prison there are fewer criminals about to commit property crimes.You beat China by a long way in that respect. It works, but you think that's a just society? The federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, trousers, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armour; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. And we thought that you'd abolished slavery!

For the last time, you may need guns to defend yourselves from the society you have brought upon yourselves but this post is about Britain and we don't. We can be a violent people, which is why arming a basically unarmed society would not reduce the dangers but increase them. It's how we do manage to have a largely unarmed police force and a generally tranquil and free society.

You are funny in a truly sad way.

You spout unsubstantiated claims without cites. I will only bother citing a response to one - paint. ICI is the largest paint manufacturer in the world http://www.dfwpainting.com/what-paint-manufacturer-should-you-use-a-little-about-sherwin-williams-kelly-moore-and-ici/ - they use O% prison labor as do all of the rest of the major manufacturers of this product. Your other claims are equally ludicrous.

You are not worth the time nor the effort - you are indeed a fine example of what is wrong in the world. Good seeing such an open intellectual mind - NOT!

Won't "unwatch the topic," will choose to shun you as a contaminated troll.

Yata hey

 

[marshaul]

imported post

UKexcop wrote:

Just got bored with beating my head against the brick walls in here!

Continue to enjoy your fantasy world where square-jawed straight-shooting citizens regularly disperse dangerous crowds of rapists and muggers.  Don't worry about the regular massacres that fill your news, bulletins.  Ignore the numbers of children killed by playing with legal guns.  Forget that your murder rate is almost 4 times ours. Try to pretend that your violent crime rates, which only reflect serious assaults, are lower than ours which (ridiculously I agree) include even verbal threats. 
The main reason for your falling property crime rate is not gun-toting vigilantes, but the three strikes law which can get you life for stealing a pair of trainers.  Although the United States represents less than 5% of the world's population, over 25% of the people incarcerated around the world are housed in the American prison system. It probably deters many but also means that, by having by far the highest proportion in the world of your population in prison there are fewer criminals about to commit property crimes. You beat China by a long way in that respect.   It works, but you think that's a just society?  The federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, trousers, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armour; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture.  And we thought that you'd abolished slavery! 

For the last time, you may need guns to defend yourselves from the society you have brought upon yourselves but this post is about Britain and we don't.  We can be a violent people, which is why arming a basically unarmed society would not reduce the dangers but increase them.  It's how we do manage to have a largely unarmed police force and a generally tranquil and free society.

Hey, buddy, I'm a libertarian. Don't pin that on my head.

If I had my way, we'd have fewer laws than any country in the world. We'd have low crime and nearly-empty prisons. And we'd have armed citizens and disarmed police, like your country did before "freedom" became a nasty word.

 

[marshaul]

imported post

By the way, more children die in swimming pool accidents than die in gunplay.

http://freakonomicsbook.com/freakonomics/chapter-excerpts/chapter-5/

The rates of all homicide are higher in the US than in the UK, so it follows that the rate of homicide with any given tool will be higher. It also follows that guns are not a primary *cause* of homicide, since the proportion between, on the one hand, gun murder rates here and gun murder rates there, and on the other hand, knife murder rates here and knife murder rates there, is essentially equal.

As your own statistics over the last few years bear out, the solution isn't to ban guns, but to move drugs into the legal market where they can no longer be monopolized by those who use violence to defend their turf.

Your own prohibition (pushed by our government, unfortunately) is already causing problems. You're having gang shootings (you know this to be true, as a cop, so I won't bother with a citation) -- which should have been eliminated by now.

You have prohibition and gun control. If your government keeps on its quest for control, you can fully expect to have problems exactly like the US in the years to come. Those problems are already in their embryonic stages.

 

[old dog]

imported post

My sense of the situation is that the rule is "thou shalt not defend thyself". How else to explain women living alone and middle-age businessmen being arrested for repelling intruders?

What impels officials to behave in this disgraceful, despicable manner? What is so wrong with threatening an intruder with a kitchen knife? The villain would seem to have more rights than the victim.

UKexcop bemoans the dangers in society. He probably admires Singapore, probably the safest city in the world. Safe but at what price? Any individual right there rests entirely on the whim of the police.

Every day's news seems to bring some new police atrocity against the individual in your country. Your police seem eager to protect thugs from their victims. I can't imagine what prompted this attitude unless it's just easier than thinking.

I continue to be amazed that the people who gave so much to civilization now grovel before a justice system that appears to hate the very concept of the individual -- unless of course he is a Muslim or Caribbean interloper. Then the state masses its full powers of coercion.

 

[Old Grump]

imported post

Ignore the numbers of children killed by playing with legal guns.

Ignoring the stats showing the number of accidental deaths has been going down for decades aren't we. Whats the matter does our Eddie Eagle program teaching gun safety mess up your argument or do you just like parroting the Brady Bunch?

Although the United States represents less than 5% of the world's population, over 25% of the people incarcerated around the world are housed in the American prison system.

With freedom comes responsibility and with responsibility some will abuse it. Shall we compare abuses by your law enforcement community on your citizens with ours, lets talk apples to apples not kumquats to breadfruit.

We can be a violent people, which is why arming a basically unarmed society would not reduce the dangers but increase them.

No offense my friend but that was one of the stupidest things I have ever read on the internet. Some people can be violent so to keep everybody safe we disarm the victims. Good solid reasoning there. :shock:

 

[saveyourself]

imported post

There is no reasoning there mate, just comments that are 'spherical and in the plural'

 

[PKS719]

imported post

WHAT are you taking?? I've worked in several prisons over the last 25 years and have NEVER seen any :Helmets,protective vests,ammo belts etc being made in a prison. I have seen furniture and storage sheds,road signs things like that,but they arent done for free they get paid,paid in money and good time (time off their sentence) noone is forced to work,plus they get paid the minimum even if they dont work.

 

[saveyourself]

imported post

old dog wrote:

UKexcop bemoans the dangers in society. He probably admires Singapore, probably the safest city in the world. Safe but at what price? Any individual right there rests entirely on the whim of the police.

Yes, he can't see that what is in effect a police state, is wrong.

Even the other political parties in the UK are calling for more protection of "civil liberties" because of the dodgy actions of the current government. I accept, they don't mean a RKBA, but they are talking about issues of a similar vein..

But, the police are "only following orders", and as long as the salaries are good and no one questions their actions, their pensions are looked after and given out at very very young age they will do what ever the ruler of the day wants! Good help us if we ever got a truely evil guy in charge, the police wouldn't bat an eye lid.

 

[Grapeshot]

imported post

A government bent on controlling the populous will allow/demand LEA to push the limit, even cross the line.

A government truly dedicated to freedom will throw out the bad apples and require fair and honest police professionals.

Yata hey

 

[Haz.]

imported post

saveyourself wrote:

We should have a caption competition on that image.

We could us it for the British subsecution avatar.

Winston Churchill.

I like a man who grins when he fights.

Or,

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

I love these by Winston Churchill,

Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives.


There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result.

When you have to kill a criminal, it costs nothing to be polite.