david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
Spyder, if the library is city owned... they have NO say to ask you to leave.
Spyder, if the library is city owned... they have NO say to ask you to leave.
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CCW in AK for "gun free school zones"?
- Thread starter Rabid SA-XD
- Start date
david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
Flintlock wrote:
The preemption overrides old and new laws, there is no grandfathering or allowance for subsidiaries to create new laws which restrict firearms except use, as in firing in the city limits.
No matter how much law enforcement want to go B'aaawwwww up in Anchorage, their ordinances if they still have them on the books hold no water. I also read in a 05'-06' article state troopers giving legal advice on posted signs when they're clearly wrong, 'no firearms' signs are not legal unless they fall under the trespass laws which I posted earlier.
Flintlock wrote:
carry in to places which serve alcohol is illegal for open and conceal carry, unless you can provide an affirmative defense it was 1) concealed and 2) you did not consume alcohol. You can still go to court over it, just like you can go to court over shooting someone dead in your home for self-defense.
The preemption overrides old and new laws, there is no grandfathering or allowance for subsidiaries to create new laws which restrict firearms except use, as in firing in the city limits.
No matter how much law enforcement want to go B'aaawwwww up in Anchorage, their ordinances if they still have them on the books hold no water. I also read in a 05'-06' article state troopers giving legal advice on posted signs when they're clearly wrong, 'no firearms' signs are not legal unless they fall under the trespass laws which I posted earlier.
Flintlock
Regular Member
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
Well, you are drumming up another can of worms that I wasn't thinking about (but that could be a good discussion sometime) but I was just discussing the restaurant carry situation where alcohol is served for on-premises consumption. Moose's Tooth for example. There is no law against open carry therethat I can find as long as it is not loaded.
[align=left]Sec. 11.61.220. Misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree. [/align]
(a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree if the person
(2) knowingly possesses a loaded firearm on the person in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises;
Also, there is not necessarily any similarities in excepting concealed carry law as open carry law. In most states, there is an absence of open carry laws altogether. In Virginia for example, it is illegal to concealcarry in locations that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. There is no actual statute prohibiting the practice of open carry, not rendering it legal, either. There doesn't have to be one.
Virginiahas since become thebirth of the open carry movement.
Ifthe statute says weapons, firearms, or deadly weapons are prohibited, etc. then it is not going to matter how it is carried, it would not be allowed, IMO. But if it is concealed carry focused, that has nothing to do with open carry.
One man's opinion.
spyderdude wrote:
Well, you are drumming up another can of worms that I wasn't thinking about (but that could be a good discussion sometime) but I was just discussing the restaurant carry situation where alcohol is served for on-premises consumption. Moose's Tooth for example. There is no law against open carry therethat I can find as long as it is not loaded.
[align=left]Sec. 11.61.220. Misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree. [/align]
(a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree if the person
(2) knowingly possesses a loaded firearm on the person in any place where intoxicating liquor is sold for consumption on the premises;
Also, there is not necessarily any similarities in excepting concealed carry law as open carry law. In most states, there is an absence of open carry laws altogether. In Virginia for example, it is illegal to concealcarry in locations that serve alcohol for on-premises consumption. There is no actual statute prohibiting the practice of open carry, not rendering it legal, either. There doesn't have to be one.
Virginiahas since become thebirth of the open carry movement.
Ifthe statute says weapons, firearms, or deadly weapons are prohibited, etc. then it is not going to matter how it is carried, it would not be allowed, IMO. But if it is concealed carry focused, that has nothing to do with open carry.
One man's opinion.
david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
Yes, you're right, it leaves out the open carry of an unloaded firearm. I'm not sure however what a state of loading the firearm would be in if a person carried the loaded magazine on the other side of their person. I've not seen any case law as of yet, though other states had cases in the past, which makes me curious as to what action a case in Alaska would result.
Yes, you're right, it leaves out the open carry of an unloaded firearm. I'm not sure however what a state of loading the firearm would be in if a person carried the loaded magazine on the other side of their person. I've not seen any case law as of yet, though other states had cases in the past, which makes me curious as to what action a case in Alaska would result.
murphyslaw
State Researcher
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
spyderdude wrote:
The Lusac Library building is owned and operated by the city. And houses many city offices. its not just a library, I would like to see you carry in city hall. I know for a fact there are armed guards and metal detectors in there.
david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
They can't stop me from entering with a firearm, unless of course the place also houses the court facility or justice related agency. They are only allowed to observe, and they have limitations as to what is defined as observed. They can't just follow me around waiting to see if I do anything, which would constitute harassment.
What exactly is housed in the facility?
edit: or justice related agency
They can't stop me from entering with a firearm, unless of course the place also houses the court facility or justice related agency. They are only allowed to observe, and they have limitations as to what is defined as observed. They can't just follow me around waiting to see if I do anything, which would constitute harassment.
What exactly is housed in the facility?
edit: or justice related agency
david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
My google-fu fails me, where is the web site for Lusac Library? I seen the lexicon site but I didn't see a library named Lusac...
do you mean Loussac Public Library?
edit: ...
My google-fu fails me, where is the web site for Lusac Library? I seen the lexicon site but I didn't see a library named Lusac...
do you mean Loussac Public Library?
edit: ...
spyderdude
Regular Member
imported post
Why would you want to carry an unloaded firearm? You might as well not be carrying at all. I simply do not go to places that are posted, or don't want me around when I am carrying a gun. I have nothing against open carry, I do it on occasion during the summer on warm sunny days, but CC has its advantages as well. Like I said, I almost never go to libraries, so if I want to read a book, I will go to Barnes & Noble, Title Wave Books, or Borders.
If there is ever a time where I have to or really want to go in a posted business, I usually ignore the signs, they have no legal weight to them, but I do try to avoid them as much as possible.
Why would you want to carry an unloaded firearm? You might as well not be carrying at all. I simply do not go to places that are posted, or don't want me around when I am carrying a gun. I have nothing against open carry, I do it on occasion during the summer on warm sunny days, but CC has its advantages as well. Like I said, I almost never go to libraries, so if I want to read a book, I will go to Barnes & Noble, Title Wave Books, or Borders.
If there is ever a time where I have to or really want to go in a posted business, I usually ignore the signs, they have no legal weight to them, but I do try to avoid them as much as possible.
murphyslaw
State Researcher
imported post
insane.kangaroo wrote:
This building is the central control for all the municipality building alarms in anchorage. This is where all the city council members offices are. as well as the council meetings. There is no judicial offices in there I know of. but I have yet to see all the building. There are things there I cant talk about. But nothing that should keep you from being able to carry.
The building is only public access IN THE LIBRARY, if you try to go anywhere else you are no longer covered under the public access clause. Most of the interior doors have mag locks and rfid access control systems. so good luck.
Lets think about People Movers, they are operated by the muni. How can they kick people off the bus for having firearms?
insane.kangaroo wrote:
That is the place.My google-fu fails me, where is the web site for Lusac Library? I seen the lexicon site but I didn't see a library named Lusac...
do you mean Loussac Public Library?
edit: ...
This building is the central control for all the municipality building alarms in anchorage. This is where all the city council members offices are. as well as the council meetings. There is no judicial offices in there I know of. but I have yet to see all the building. There are things there I cant talk about. But nothing that should keep you from being able to carry.
The building is only public access IN THE LIBRARY, if you try to go anywhere else you are no longer covered under the public access clause. Most of the interior doors have mag locks and rfid access control systems. so good luck.
Lets think about People Movers, they are operated by the muni. How can they kick people off the bus for having firearms?
david.ross
Regular Member
imported post
People movers shouldn't be able to, they are covered as part of the city. If they're kicking people off because of firearms, they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit.
People movers shouldn't be able to, they are covered as part of the city. If they're kicking people off because of firearms, they're opening themselves up to a lawsuit.
Flintlock
Regular Member
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
spyderdude wrote:
I wouldn't but I would like to have at least some clarification on our laws so I can write my represenatives and complain.
Flintlock
Regular Member
imported post
murphyslaw wrote:
murphyslaw wrote:
If there are things in a public building you can't talk about, then we should be filing a FOIA request. This building is created and maintained wih our tax dollars and unless that place is a nerve center for the police department or something, I don't see what the issue is. I worked security in that building many years ago and I don't recall what you may be referring to. Additionally,there is no law against the carriage of firearms in the facility.insane.kangaroo wrote:That is the place.My google-fu fails me, where is the web site for Lusac Library? I seen the lexicon site but I didn't see a library named Lusac...
do you mean Loussac Public Library?
edit: ...
This building is the central control for all the municipality building alarms in anchorage. This is where all the city council members offices are. as well as the council meetings. There is no judicial offices in there I know of. but I have yet to see all the building. There are things there I cant talk about. But nothing that should keep you from being able to carry.
The building is only public access IN THE LIBRARY, if you try to go anywhere else you are no longer covered under the public access clause. Most of the interior doors have mag locks and rfid access control systems. so good luck.
Lets think about People Movers, they are operated by the muni. How can they kick people off the bus for having firearms?
murphyslaw
State Researcher
imported post
I am in charge of the Armed MOA contract, we have armed guards posted in an area of the lussac building. There is stuff in there that is not accessible but to a select few. I don't even know what it is, they tell me they want people to stand over there, I make it happen.
I am in charge of the Armed MOA contract, we have armed guards posted in an area of the lussac building. There is stuff in there that is not accessible but to a select few. I don't even know what it is, they tell me they want people to stand over there, I make it happen.
spyderdude
Regular Member
imported post
So are you a manager of a security company?
I currently work for Guardian Security Systems as an unarmed guard. Unfortunately I am only working two days a week, so I'm looking for another job. I would like to get into being an armored truck driver, or maybe be an armed guard.
I wanted to get into law enforcement, but because I am slightly physically disabled I am unable to do so. Security is the closest I can get to being a police officer.
So are you a manager of a security company?
I currently work for Guardian Security Systems as an unarmed guard. Unfortunately I am only working two days a week, so I'm looking for another job. I would like to get into being an armored truck driver, or maybe be an armed guard.
I wanted to get into law enforcement, but because I am slightly physically disabled I am unable to do so. Security is the closest I can get to being a police officer.
akhunter3
Regular Member
imported post
insane.kangaroo wrote:
The law states pretty clearly that loaded is defined as the magazine being in the gun and/OR one in the chamber.
Keep the mag in your pocket and you'll be unloaded and good to go.
Spyderdude- I'd rather have a gun that takes 2 seconds or less to load than no gun at all. How is not having a gun helpfull? I also don't see why I shouldn't enjoy the library or other places in town (Moose's tooth, etc.) without having to sacrifice my personal safety.
Jon
insane.kangaroo wrote:
The law states pretty clearly that loaded is defined as the magazine being in the gun and/OR one in the chamber.
Keep the mag in your pocket and you'll be unloaded and good to go.
Spyderdude- I'd rather have a gun that takes 2 seconds or less to load than no gun at all. How is not having a gun helpfull? I also don't see why I shouldn't enjoy the library or other places in town (Moose's tooth, etc.) without having to sacrifice my personal safety.
Jon
spyderdude
Regular Member
imported post
I don't see why not either, but unfortunately there are some people who just don't want armed individuals in their businesses. We have every right to carry, and those who are against the carrying of guns have every right to not allow weapons in their establishments. That is why I take my money elsewhere if I am not welcomed.
Two seconds is all it takes for a scumbag to seriously injure or kill you. If I cannot carry my loaded handgun into a certain place, I do not go there. I like to have my carry gun at the ready, at all times. If you wish to carry a holstered paper weight, go right ahead.
I don't see why not either, but unfortunately there are some people who just don't want armed individuals in their businesses. We have every right to carry, and those who are against the carrying of guns have every right to not allow weapons in their establishments. That is why I take my money elsewhere if I am not welcomed.
Two seconds is all it takes for a scumbag to seriously injure or kill you. If I cannot carry my loaded handgun into a certain place, I do not go there. I like to have my carry gun at the ready, at all times. If you wish to carry a holstered paper weight, go right ahead.
murphyslaw
State Researcher
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
spyderdude wrote:
PM on the way.I don't see why not either, but unfortunately there are some people who just don't want armed individuals in their businesses. We have every right to carry, and those who are against the carrying of guns have every right to not allow weapons in their establishments. That is why I take my money elsewhere if I am not welcomed.
Two seconds is all it takes for a scumbag to seriously injure or kill you. If I cannot carry my loaded handgun into a certain place, I do not go there. I like to have my carry gun at the ready, at all times. If you wish to carry a holstered paper weight, go right ahead.
Flintlock
Regular Member
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
I agree with you Spyderdude on not patronizing businesses that discriminate against gun owners but we are talking about public facilities that you help pay for and maintain. Municipal preeption is abundantly clear and if the Lousaac Library is a publically funded facility, it should raise concerns for tax payers and gun owners.
They are not above the law.
spyderdude wrote:
I don't see why not either, but unfortunately there are some people who just don't want armed individuals in their businesses. We have every right to carry, and those who are against the carrying of guns have every right to not allow weapons in their establishments. That is why I take my money elsewhere if I am not welcomed.
Two seconds is all it takes for a scumbag to seriously injure or kill you. If I cannot carry my loaded handgun into a certain place, I do not go there. I like to have my carry gun at the ready, at all times. If you wish to carry a holstered paper weight, go right ahead.
I agree with you Spyderdude on not patronizing businesses that discriminate against gun owners but we are talking about public facilities that you help pay for and maintain. Municipal preeption is abundantly clear and if the Lousaac Library is a publically funded facility, it should raise concerns for tax payers and gun owners.
They are not above the law.
sv_libertarian
State Researcher
imported post
insane.kangaroo wrote:
insane.kangaroo wrote:
I looked into their rules when I thought I would be heading north much sooner than I thought, and they had clear "no firearms" rules... Which struck me as pretty stupid. The transit agencies did that down here too, until a bunch of us got together and pretty much hammered on 'em.
akhunter3
Regular Member
imported post
spyderdude wrote:
Just to point out, the library is being supported by your tax dollars, so if you ain't goin' the only one missing out is yourself.
I don't see any reason to deny myself the Mooses Tooth pizza, etc. Sure, having to load your gun sucks the big one, but having one sure is better than not. We all know that we end up going places where guns ain't allowed/we aren't armed, anyway.
Heck I go to UAA so I can NEVER carry there.
Jon
spyderdude wrote:
I don't see why not either, but unfortunately there are some people who just don't want armed individuals in their businesses. We have every right to carry, and those who are against the carrying of guns have every right to not allow weapons in their establishments. That is why I take my money elsewhere if I am not welcomed.
Two seconds is all it takes for a scumbag to seriously injure or kill you. If I cannot carry my loaded handgun into a certain place, I do not go there. I like to have my carry gun at the ready, at all times. If you wish to carry a holstered paper weight, go right ahead.
Just to point out, the library is being supported by your tax dollars, so if you ain't goin' the only one missing out is yourself.
I don't see any reason to deny myself the Mooses Tooth pizza, etc. Sure, having to load your gun sucks the big one, but having one sure is better than not. We all know that we end up going places where guns ain't allowed/we aren't armed, anyway.
Heck I go to UAA so I can NEVER carry there.
Jon