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Courts, encounters with locking up pistols while visiting.

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,310
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Update 2/19/15

I talked to the city attorney today. He feels the issue is a training issue as the lobby is not set up to handle lockboxes or a way of someone receiving a firearm and securing it. If one goes to the side door(Police Station) there is someone there to receive the firearm.
The lawyer is a pro-gun guy and the lockbox issue has been brought up a few times it sounded like in our conversation. Because of this issue it will be brought up again and retraining will be done for security and LEO's.
At this point, while I wouldn't call it resolved, I will say there is a process in place to receive firearms (in the same building) for those attending court.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
772
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Had to go to the downtown Tacoma superior court friday. I was lawfully open carrying at the time. I made sure that my lawyer was present at the time when I let the security screeners know that I needed to check in a firearm. A deputy came up, opened up the lock box room on the 2nd floor and escorted me inside. He proceeded to ask me for identifying information, which I refused to give him. He made a big stink about it and even threatened to refuse to allow me access to the court if I didn't give him any information. He asked for ID, he asked for my CPL, he asked me to just tell him my name. All was refused. I quoted the deputy RCW 9.41.300 and told him that state law does not require anything more from me other then that I surrender my firearm for it to be secured during my stay at the court. He tried to say that the court didn't have to provide me with a way to lock up my firearm and that he could demand that I leave. I corrected him and again quoted the above state law. My lawyer, standing not 5 feet away flat out told he was wrong. The deputy tried to get my lawyer to have me comply with the deputy and my lawyer refused.

Finally, after I decided to speed things along, I told the officer I would give him my first name only, we finished up the process. The deputy went on about his business (which happened to be anywhere I was not) and I proceeded through security. My lawyer and I got up to the courtroom we were suppose to be at and while waiting for my hearing, the same deputy came in, apologized, asked me for the little card that he had given me earlier. He then gave me a different card with the key to the lockbox where my firearm was stored and then left the room.

When I was finished with my hearing, my lawyer and I returned to the 2nd floor. There was a different deputy standing there. We contacted him, indicated my desire. He pleasantly and without hassle assisted me in retrieving my firearm and let me be on my way. I will most likely be contacting the court sometime soon so that I may further correct them in their errors and see if they will correct them without the need of involving legal action.
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,461
Location
Dallas
I would think your attorney should send them a courtesy bill for properly instructing their deputy on the proper application of the law. Perhaps offer a reduced rate class for other deputies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

AZRobert

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Portland, OR
Am I missing something? When did an Oregon CPL become valid in Washington? Isn't showing up at a courthouse with a concealed firearm, which is illegal to conceal without a recognized CPL kinda ballsy?

http://www.atg.wa.gov/concealedweapons/reciprocity.aspx
Super late reply...
He asked for my DL which is Oregon then he asked if I had a permit. I asked which he wanted to see OR or WA he said whatever. The OR one came up first in my wallet.
 

Difdi

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
990
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
I just found out today that the Aberdeen Municipal Court does not provide lock boxes for those that carry firearms. I'd like to find someone from the area to work on this issue. If no one is available then i will take it on. FYI - I have made contact with the city Attorneys department on the matter.
It's things like this that make me tempted to invest in a cheap revolver or even cheaper starter pistol. That way I could test compliance without running the risk of losing a multiple-hundred dollar pistol. I did that for cameras when I wanted to take pictures at protests, it makes sense for testing other rights as well.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
772
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Well, I have to go down to the Pierce county court house again tomorrow. I will be taking with me a printout of RCW 9.41.300 with the appropriate portion highlighted regarding courts. We will see if they have learned anything since my last visit. This time, instead of trying to debate with the officer that shows up to provide me with a lock box for my firearm, I will immediately demand a supervisor so as to cut through all the BS. I will be recording both video and audio so as to share the results of such interaction.

At this point, I'm seriously done dealing with the lack of education regarding state law requirements of courts duty to provide secure storage for lawfully possessed and carried firearms while within the confines of the court building. If they give me even the slightest hassle, I will be seeking legal action.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
772
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Well it seems that per the deputy at the Pierce county courthouse, they have the "right" to demand ID regarding the storage of firearms before entering the building. I tried to explain to the officer that state law says nothing of the sort and in fact, he had no rights at all. I told him this flat out. I'll have to go back and listen to the recording that I made and I told the officer that I was recording.

On the way out, I had to deal with the same officer, I had calmed down after the initial encounter and had a chance to better explain to this officer that if I am not required to have ID in order to get into the courthouse or to walk down the street for that matter, and I'm not required to have my CPL if I am open carrying, why gives them the authority to demand that I have ID in order to access a public building just because I am lawfully carrying a handgun? Why don't they require ID of everyone that enters the courthouse? Why is it that only those that are exercising a constitutionally protected right must submit to a search of their "papers"?

He said simply "It's our policy."

Audio file link: http://1drv.ms/1cRoDZX
 
Last edited:

mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
305
Location
Kahlotus, WA
Courthouse Frequent Flying

Over the past month, I've been visiting the Franklin County Courthouse an average of once a week. The security personnel know me well as I have a pacemaker & unable to safely walk through the metal detector. The standard procedure for me has been to walk in with my Implanted Cardiac Device ID & Driver's License in hand, emptying my pockets & sidestepping the metal detector, then the security personnel perform a pat down.

Since I am following the philosophy of Armed American Radio's Mark Walters of: "Never leave your cave without your club" & "Carry on, Carry often, Carry absolutely everywhere", the security personnel now systematically ask if I need a lockbox. All I do there is remove the sidearm while holstered, remove the magazine, & place both in the lockbox then lock the box. After that is when I empty my pockets & proceed through to have the pat down done.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Over the past month, I've been visiting the Franklin County Courthouse an average of once a week. The security personnel know me well as I have a pacemaker & unable to safely walk through the metal detector. The standard procedure for me has been to walk in with my Implanted Cardiac Device ID & Driver's License in hand, emptying my pockets & sidestepping the metal detector, then the security personnel perform a pat down.
Why do you have a Driver's License in hand? From what state (hint Washington does not issue a driver's license) ? I believe you meant DRIVER LICENSE (seriously, read the card and the law), but the question remains, why do you carry it?

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mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
305
Location
Kahlotus, WA
Why do you have a Driver's License in hand? From what state (hint Washington does not issue a driver's license) ? I believe you meant DRIVER LICENSE (seriously, read the card and the law), but the question remains, why do you carry it?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk
Better to have a Washington Driver License than a Washington Identification Card.

Having DL in hard with the Implanted Cardiac Device (ICD) Card verifies identity as listed on the ICD Card.
 

J1MB0B

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
239
Location
Tacoma, Washington
Hello all. It has been a while since I last posted. I just wanted to give an update on the Cowlitz County Courthouse. I open carried right up to security and informed him that I had a firearm to lock up. As I expected, he asked for CPL and ID. I told him I din't have either on my and he asked why I dont have them if Im carrying a firearm. I politely told him that Im not required to have either if Im open carrying and he said I was right and he didn't notice it was open. He put it in the box and I went on my way. No issues on the way out at all. I was concerned that if it wasnt the same deputy that took it, I might have an issue getting it as I didn't have any real way of showing them it was mine, but it was the same guy and in the end, all was well.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I was concerned that if it wasnt the same deputy that took it, I might have an issue getting it as I didn't have any real way of showing them it was mine, but it was the same guy and in the end, all was well.
No receipt? Do not "give" unless you "receive". You may very well have had a difficult time if the leo had been relieved.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I went to the Seattle Municipal, today. I OC'd up to the security desk. The marshal started to ask for my CPL, then asked for ID. I asked him, for the law requiring me to have ID.

He then asked if I had business in the courthouse. I told him that it was none of his business and I was entering the courthouse and that was all he needed to know.

I then asked him why there was no locker for me to simply lock up without having to hassle him. He agreed that they should have lockers so that he did not have to fiddle with people's guns. HE claimed that I should have ID to have him lock up my gun so that my gun gets back to me. I told him just give me a claim receipt.

He did not want to do that without ID. Then ends up giving me a green (?) piece of paper that had no information on it, I handed it back to him when I was leaving, takes them 5-10 minutes to get my gun. They had removed it from the holster AND unloaded it. I take issue with that but they always do it and will not stop even after I have told them to NOT EVEN REMOVE IT FROM THE HOLSTER!.

Either way, the court in Seattle sucks.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
They had removed it from the holster AND unloaded it. I take issue with that but they always do it and will not stop even after I have told them to NOT EVEN REMOVE IT FROM THE HOLSTER!..
Next time zip tie the sucker and they will not be able to do it without cutting it. Warrant to check numbers?
 

DeSchaine

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
There's probably a regulation about secure storing all firearms unloaded. If that IS the case, then they should make you unload it, and hand you one of those colored plastic chamber blocks with a number on it, which would then match any claim ticket they gave you. But then, I'm sure no one thought it out that far.
 
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