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Drinking and Carrying

MrFive7

Newbie
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
12
Location
E-Town
This has been bugging me for a while, but I keep forgetting to post.

Couple months back, the wife and I went to Crusin' The Heartland car show in E-town. It's a great time for anyone interested, with thousands of cars from all over.

We have our same routine every year. We park, walk through the streets until we get to the food trucks. We grab something to eat, then head over to the beer trailer and each get a beer. We then proceed to walk and talk to folks about their cars.

So we're walking and talking, I'm open carrying my FiveseveN, and my wife is carrying her S&W 642 J-frame. Everything is going fine, a couple Vietnam vets actually stopped and said "thanks for carrying, you never know in this day and age."

I saw a nice mustang, (I'm a mustang guy) and started talking to the owner about what he had done to the car. He was from Lexington. At some point he noticed my pistol and told me to "be careful" since I had a beer in my hand. He said, "if the cops see you they'll arrest you on the spot." He then proceeded to tell me that he was trying to "help" and this is coming from a CCDW holder, like that's supposed to justify his ignorance.

I got the feeling he was an off duty LEO, so I wasn't surprised he wasn't very versed in the law. I really didn't feel like getting in to a debate, so I just told him there's always local EPD cops at the event, and in the 4 years we've been going, we've never been had a problem. Have a nice day.

I'm posting this for the sake of anyone searching. There are no laws in KY about drinking and carrying. People like to make up laws that don't exist. The only restrictions on carrying are KRS 244.125, which is basically referring to bars and restaurants that make over 50% of revenue from alcohol. Carry allowed if it's unloaded in these establishments.

Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, no person shall be in
possession of a loaded, as defined in KRS 237.060, firearm
while actually within
the room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink of a building on
premises licensed to sell distilled spirits and wine at retail by the drink for
consumption on the licensed premises pursuant to KRS Chapter 243.


Correct me if I'm wrong (Gut Shot), but I just wanted to clear this up for anyone who is curious. Having a beer while carrying doesn't make you a criminal.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
I agree. That said, I do not believe carrying while intoxicated is wise (or legal in most places).
My State has numerous laws about being anywhere near alcohol while concealed . There are almost zero laws restricting Open Carry. I go to local restaurants and pubs with no worries. I have a beer, sometimes two, with my meals.
I did cause a bit of a stir at one of the local breweries and they made themselves a "gun free zone". That is another subject.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
744
Location
Central Ky.
This has been bugging me for a while, but I keep forgetting to post.

Couple months back, the wife and I went to Crusin' The Heartland car show in E-town. It's a great time for anyone interested, with thousands of cars from all over.

We have our same routine every year. We park, walk through the streets until we get to the food trucks. We grab something to eat, then head over to the beer trailer and each get a beer. We then proceed to walk and talk to folks about their cars.

So we're walking and talking, I'm open carrying my FiveseveN, and my wife is carrying her S&W 642 J-frame. Everything is going fine, a couple Vietnam vets actually stopped and said "thanks for carrying, you never know in this day and age."

I saw a nice mustang, (I'm a mustang guy) and started talking to the owner about what he had done to the car. He was from Lexington. At some point he noticed my pistol and told me to "be careful" since I had a beer in my hand. He said, "if the cops see you they'll arrest you on the spot." He then proceeded to tell me that he was trying to "help" and this is coming from a CCDW holder, like that's supposed to justify his ignorance.

I got the feeling he was an off duty LEO, so I wasn't surprised he wasn't very versed in the law. I really didn't feel like getting in to a debate, so I just told him there's always local EPD cops at the event, and in the 4 years we've been going, we've never been had a problem. Have a nice day.

I'm posting this for the sake of anyone searching. There are no laws in KY about drinking and carrying. People like to make up laws that don't exist. The only restrictions on carrying are KRS 244.125, which is basically referring to bars and restaurants that make over 50% of revenue from alcohol. Carry allowed if it's unloaded in these establishments.

Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, no person shall be in
possession of a loaded, as defined in KRS 237.060, firearm
while actually within
the room where alcoholic beverages are being sold by the drink of a building on
premises licensed to sell distilled spirits and wine at retail by the drink for
consumption on the licensed premises pursuant to KRS Chapter 243.


Correct me if I'm wrong (Gut Shot), but I just wanted to clear this up for anyone who is curious. Having a beer while carrying doesn't make you a criminal.
You are correct except for one small error. KRS 244.125 is about BARS, places with little or no food service. It is not about restuarants and specifically says as much. the part of your post that I highlighted is just an explanation that the statute, in its entirety, does not apply to bona fide restaurants. Also, KRS 244.125 specifically prohibits loaded firearms in a ROOM where alcohol is being served. Since you were not in a room, that statute would not apply to the situation you described. We went through this with Louisville Metro at the Waterfront Park when tents are used for alcohol sales. They finally admitted that a tent is not a room. I intentionally bought Ginger Ale at a tent this summer while OC at that park to test their compliance. Presumedly, you could carry on the outside deck of a bar and have all the drinks you want brought to you.
Ky.'s concealed carry law KRS 237.110 (16)(e) also mentions carrying concealed weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol and only prohibits carry in the area where alcohol is actually served. The is no explanation of where this area starts and stops, but obviously, you could not sit at the bar and drink while carrying a concealed weapon but could carry at a table some unknown distance from the bar and drink all you want.
Of course, if you ever found it necessary to fire your weapon and had been drinking, you will face a tough uphill battle proving that you were not at least partly at fault. Under KRS 244.125, a person carrying a semi-automatic pistol with no ammo in the chamber and no magazine in the well could legally carry that firearm into a bar even if he had a loaded magazine in his possession. There is a prefiled bill for the 2019 session of the General Assembly that would repeal KRS 244.125 and eliminate almost all other "gun free" areas in Ky. Bills like this have not had much luck in previous years. Remember, Ky. is still in the "bible belt" and there are a lot of prejudices against alcohol.
 

MrFive7

Newbie
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
12
Location
E-Town
I agree. That said, I do not believe carrying while intoxicated is wise (or legal in most places).
I'm definitely not advocating getting intoxicated while carrying. I'm 6'0 and 180lbs, a beer or two is not going to get me inebriated by any means. If I have more than two beers, I'm going to be at home, since I don't drink and drive.

Of course, if you ever found it necessary to fire your weapon and had been drinking, you will face a tough uphill battle proving that you were not at least partly at fault.
Very sound advice. One of many reasons I choose not to drink in public outside a glass of wine with dinner or the example above.

Remember, Ky. is still in the "bible belt" and there are a lot of prejudices against alcohol.
This was somewhat the point of my OP. The stigma that alcohol in moderation would turn an otherwise normal person into an irrational homicidal maniac. The pistol stays in its holster unless your life is in danger, no exceptions. I think 99% of those that carry would agree. Training and repetition does not stop simply because one wants to legally indulge in a drink now and then.

There is a prefiled bill for the 2019 session of the General Assembly that would repeal KRS 244.125 and eliminate almost all other "gun free" areas in Ky.
Hopefully this bill gets more traction than the previous ones I've followed that went nowhere.

Thanks again for all you do GSII.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
The problem with drinking alcohol even in moderation it has been proven to affect depth perception, and other motor abilities. While I have no problem with ONE beer, if anyone drinks even in moderation, misses and causes property damage, or personal injury is probably going to prison. That means a loss of many rights.

Is it worth it?
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
766
Location
Fayetteville NC
You said it much better than I did.
OK, who are you really, and where is the real Gutshot II who writes in bold so that I don't need glasses to read?:geek:

MrFive7 said:
Having a beer while carrying doesn't make you a criminal.
Completely agree, but also agree with WalkingWolf. Besides, I already have to irrigate urinals, trees, or my truck tires too often to add alcoholic diuretics to the mix.
 

HP995

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
730
Location
MO, USA
+1 WW. Criminal and stupid are two good considerations. Yep, it's not criminal. :D
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,284
Location
White Oak Plantation
This topic comes up from time to time. It seems that consuming adult beverages in one's own home is exempt from any rational and reasonable discussion of guns and booze.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,801
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
You are correct except for one small error. KRS 244.125 is about BARS, places with little or no food service. It is not about restuarants and specifically says as much. the part of your post that I highlighted is just an explanation that the statute, in its entirety, does not apply to bona fide restaurants. Also, KRS 244.125 specifically prohibits loaded firearms in a ROOM where alcohol is being served. Since you were not in a room, that statute would not apply to the situation you described. We went through this with Louisville Metro at the Waterfront Park when tents are used for alcohol sales. They finally admitted that a tent is not a room. I intentionally bought Ginger Ale at a tent this summer while OC at that park to test their compliance. Presumedly, you could carry on the outside deck of a bar and have all the drinks you want brought to you.
Ky.'s concealed carry law KRS 237.110 (16)(e) also mentions carrying concealed weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol and only prohibits carry in the area where alcohol is actually served. The is no explanation of where this area starts and stops, but obviously, you could not sit at the bar and drink while carrying a concealed weapon but could carry at a table some unknown distance from the bar and drink all you want.
Of course, if you ever found it necessary to fire your weapon and had been drinking, you will face a tough uphill battle proving that you were not at least partly at fault. Under KRS 244.125, a person carrying a semi-automatic pistol with no ammo in the chamber and no magazine in the well could legally carry that firearm into a bar even if he had a loaded magazine in his possession. There is a prefiled bill for the 2019 session of the General Assembly that would repeal KRS 244.125 and eliminate almost all other "gun free" areas in Ky. Bills like this have not had much luck in previous years. Remember, Ky. is still in the "bible belt" and there are a lot of prejudices against alcohol.
What is the difference between being served "at a table" or "at the bar"? Aren't they both in an "area where alcohol is actually served", just perhaps not the same area?
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
744
Location
Central Ky.
The difference is the law says you can do one but says you can't do the other. One is an area primarily used for the service of alcohol and the other isn't. Here is the actual wording of the statute, "(e) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;" It doesn't matter if it is a table or a bar stool. The distinction is the area of the restuarant. If you are in the area "primarily devoted to the service of alcohol" you can not carry a concealed weapon there, even if you sit at a table or do not sit at all. If you sit on a bar stool, anything else or stand on your feet not in that area you can carry a concealed weapon. Do you come to Ky. and drink often? I gave a link to the statue why did you not click it and read for yourself.
 
Last edited:

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,801
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
The difference is the law says you can do one but says you can't do the other. One is an area primarily used for the service of alcohol and the other isn't. Here is the actual wording of the statute, "(e) Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;" It doesn't matter if it is a table or a bar stool. The distinction is the area of the restuarant. If you are in the area "primarily devoted to the service of alcohol" you can not carry a concealed weapon there, even if you sit at a table or do not sit at all. If you sit on a bar stool, anything else or stand on your feet not in that area you can carry a concealed weapon. Do you come to Ky. and drink often? I gave a link to the statue why did you not click it and read for yourself.
I referenced your interpretation of the statute in your post, where you said "...alcohol is actually served..." as opposed to "...primarily devoted to the service of alcohol...". Alcohol is "actually served" wherever the customer is seated, which as you point out, can be anywhere in the establishment.
 
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