HB 228 Write your rep!

[vermonter]

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Use this form to write your MT State Senator, or all the MT State Senators if you feel ambitious! Be logical, concise and articulate.... You get more bees with honey. They don't want to hear rants about liberals. Show them that firearms owners are level headed and of good character. It passed the house and is now in the senate!

Here is a good idea about what to write:

Dear Senator XXXX,

I am writing to ask you to support HB 228. As a firearm owner I feel this bill is important to protect my right to defend myself and my family against violent crime. This bill affirms that right, and removes the burden of proof from the law abiding citizen. Many other states have passes similar legislation with no ill effects. Please support his important legislation.

Thank You, XXXX

Here is the link to wirte to the Senators:

http://leg.mt.gov/css/sessions/61st/legwebmessage.asp

Here is the list of legislators:

http://leg.mt.gov/css/Sessions/61st/roster.asp?HouseID=0&SessionID=94

Here is a write-up on the subject:

http://montanahuntingtoday.com/blog/index.php/2009/01/31/action-time-hb-228/

and here:

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2528.0

Here is the bill:

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/BillHtml/HB0228.htm

 

[MT GUNNY]

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I was just about to Post this Thanks!

Lets Show them What were made of!!!

 

[MontanaCZ]

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I did mine. Of course I have 2 good reps that are 2A supporters, but it is good to let them know anyway.

-CZ

 

[MT GUNNY]

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I sent out my Emails!

I always like adding the Text of the 2 Amendment, Plus the State Right to keep and bear arms Passage in the State Constitution.

 

[40s-and-wfan]

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Just called and left a message for them! It's easier for me to vocally say what I want than it is to type it! Hopefully it has some effect!

406-444-4800

 

[MT GUNNY]

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I would do Both But dont have Long Distance!

 

[MT GUNNY]

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Slight Problem Fellas, I got a Email back from a Supporter But he Wants toEliminate a Provision That does not Exist. Lets Email him and Explain.

Here is what he wrote me after my Email;

Lucas, I fully support it (HB228). I am working to eliminate the provision which would give the right for a felon to carry, but other than that, I am good to go with it.

I believe he thinks like what Mountain Gator is having a Problem with, "No Pun intended MounGator"

Allowing CC in City Limits without Permit Does not mean Felons also!!!



Here is his Email Please be Nice; ryan@zinkeforsenate.com

 

[40s-and-wfan]

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OK, maybe I'm stupid or something but I don't know where it says in there that a convicted felon has the right to carry a firearm! We all know that felons can't possess any, so what makes someone think that since the wording is the way it is, that it gives felons the right to own a handgun or a rifle? Is it the fact that some people are uneducated or just plain dumb??

 

[JBinMontana]

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MT GUNNY wrote:

Slight Problem Fellas, I got a Email back from a Supporter But he Wants toEliminate a Provision That does not Exist. Lets Email him and Explain.

Here is what he wrote me after my Email;

Lucas, I fully support it (HB228). I am working to eliminate the provision which would give the right for a felon to carry, but other than that, I am good to go with it.

I believe he thinks like what Mountain Gator is having a Problem with, "No Pun intended MounGator"

Allowing CC in City Limits without Permit Does not mean Felons also!!!



Here is his Email Please be Nice; ryan@zinkeforsenate.com

Felons can not carry a handgun, but Montana felons can regain the right to hunt using a firearm ie Long Gun,Muzzleloaderand Shotgunor Bow. But only after petitioning the court that they were convicted in. I do not think this applies to violent offenders, but those found guilty of the type felonies such as CC Fraud, bad checksetc.


Sometimes for people like the above it has to be completely spelled out for them, and then they still don't understand what it says.

 

[MountainGator]

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MT GUNNY wrote:

Slight Problem Fellas, I got a Email back from a Supporter But he Wants toEliminate a Provision That does not Exist. Lets Email him and Explain.

Here is what he wrote me after my Email;

Lucas, I fully support it (HB228). I am working to eliminate the provision which would give the right for a felon to carry, but other than that, I am good to go with it.

I believe he thinks like what Mountain Gator is having a Problem with, "No Pun intended MounGator"

Allowing CC in City Limits without Permit Does not mean Felons also!!!



Here is his Email Please be Nice; ryan@zinkeforsenate.com

Ok Gunny& 40S and W. I never said that I thought the bill would allow a Convicted Felon to carry. The Terms I did use was 'Gangbanger' and "wifebeater'. Now let's look at this realistically.

• There are many members of 'gangs' who have never been convicted of anything.
• There are people out there dealing drugs that have never been convicted of anything.
• There are people out there who are guilty of spouse abuse or who have a spouse abuse restraining order against them who are not convicted felons and who do own weapons.
• There are many people out there who have never fired any kind if firearm in their life! They probably don't even have the first clue about safe gun handling practices.
• There are people out there that are just plain "stupid" or who do very stupid things.

My concern is that if this bill passes, these are the people out there who will be carrying and who will be legal. I lived In Utah when the Gangs came in in the '90's. Punk kids who had "No Conviction" shot it out in a parking lot of where I used to get my hair cut. The Current Montanapermitting processes gives the Sheriff the tools to deny unconvicted gang members and "suspected" drug dealers. The Current Montanapermitting processes blocks "spouse abusers". The Current Montanapermitting processes requires that you show at least some level of training and familiarity with firearms.

In that last regard, most LEA's that I know of require that their officers demonstrate their proficiency with their weapon before they can carry, and are then required to re-certify periodically. By your screen name Gunny, I assume that you're retired military. I am. Last thing I ever wanted was fratricide, and that's why every man in my unit re-qualified with all the weapons they had duty access to every 6 months.Golfing buddy of mine, Retired Carbon County Sheriff, Retired MHP, RetiredMarine, still qualifies with his carry piece.

I'm not opposed to carry, and I'm licensed to CCWin32 states. And then there are others where I can and do (when I'm there) OC. If I'm in and OC state, I at least have an indication that someone else is armed if they are carrying openly, and I TRUST that if they are CCW, they have passed at least some minimum safety/proficiency standard. I am concerned that if this bill passes, we could have people walking around everywhere - malls, Wallyworld, Mainstreet - carrying, and they may have Never fired a firearm in their life! If I'm around when something does go down, I'm not sure they won't be at least as big of a threat to me as a BG.

 

[40s-and-wfan]

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Why can't they just leave it the way it is?

 

[JBinMontana]

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Read the text of HB 228

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/BillHtml/HB0228.htm

I can tell you right now that if your a member of a street gang and are caught with a firearm you will be arrested. If you are dealing drugs and are in possession of a firearm again you will get arrested. You can not conduct yourself in criminal activity and legally carry a firearm in the state of Montana.


Just in case you can't find 45-8-405 concerning Gang Activity:

http://data.opi.state.mt.us/BILLS/MCA/45/8/45-8-405.htm

 

[MountainGator]

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I have read the Bill, but let's read it together...(specifically Section 8)

Section 8.Section 45-8-316, MCA, is amended to read:

"45-8-316.Carrying concealed weapons. (1) A person who carries or bears concealed upon his the person, if using it to commit a criminal offense, a dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, slingshot, sword cane, billy, knuckles made of any metal or hard substance, knife having a blade 4 inches long or longer, razor, not including a safety razor, or other deadly weapon shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment in the county jail for a period not exceeding 6 months, or both.

(2)A person who has previously been convicted of an offense, committed on a different occasion than the offense under this section, in this state or any other jurisdiction for which a sentence to a term of imprisonment in excess of 1 year could have been imposed and who carries or bears concealed upon his the person, if using it to commit a criminal offense, any of the weapons described in subsection (1) shall be punished by a fine not exceeding $1,000 or imprisoned in the state prison for a period not exceeding 5 years, or both."

So if 228 is enacted, it will only be a criminal offense to carry a concealed weapon if one is using IT (the concealed weapon) to commit a criminal offense - weather they have been previously convicted or not. Now "belonging" to a gang is not necessarily a criminal offense. And walking down Mainstreet is certainly not a criminal offense. So a gang member walking down Mainstreet is not a criminal Offense. Similarly, while Selling illegal drugs IS a criminal offense, but a "Drug Dealer" who is not currently Holding or selling and is not (otherwise) committing a criminal offense,therefore CAN be is possession of a Concealed Weapon.

Now I notice JB that you have conveniently not stated any rebuttal concerning Domestic violence. What are your thoughts there?

And one final question... What are your thoughts on Safety, Training, and Proficiency?

 

[JBinMontana]

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Why do you keep looking for an arguement or debate just because it is not written into the wording of HB 228 if it is already written into law in other places of the MCA. If you have been convicted of domestic violence,or are a member of a street gang your not going to legally be able to carry in Montana.

My opinion doesn't matter the laws are already in place, and if HB 228 passes it doesn't nullify the already existing laws on domestic violent offenders and or gang members.


Now having said this, no law is going to stop our law breaking element here in Montana from carrying firearms.

 

[MT GUNNY]

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Agreed JB, there are Laws already in place. I don't think it can get any Clearer than that!

 

[40s-and-wfan]

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Very true JB. I think I stated that in a previous discussion we had. If a criminal (Spouse abuser, child molester, gang member, etc.) decides to carry a concealed weapon and they commit a crime either with or without the weapon, I would almost be willing to guarantee you that they will not only get charged for the original crime they committed, but they'll more than likely get charged for unlawful carry of a concealed weapon!

Just because a law is in place stating that rape or murder is illegal, doesn't mean it's going to stop the rapists and murderers from committing those crimes!! It's already proof-positive of that fact. Criminal acts are illegal, but there are still criminals out there!

If HB-228 is reworded, do you honestly think the criminals will pay attention to it? Do you honestly think the criminals pay attention to the laws and restrictions that are on the books now?! I don't know about anyone else, but I don't!!!! That's why Law Enforcement work is so popular and also so necessary!!

 

[MT GUNNY]

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Criminals Will be Criminals, The Criminals will continue to comit Crimes, Knowing Full well they will be Out of Jail in a Few months. Until The Government Startsto Enforce the Laws on the Books to the Full extent of those Laws.

Law Abiding Citizens will Continue to be Law Abiding Citizens, Following every Freedom Taking, Constitution Breaking, Idiotic laws, that Come from Disconnected Politicians, Who stay in Office To Long. Until The I's in WE THE PEOPLE Stand and confront them.

 

[JBinMontana]

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MountainGator wrote:

And one final question... What are your thoughts on Safety, Training, and Proficiency?

My thoughts are mine on this matter, I make sure I am up to snuff on mysafety,training and proficiency. If your hinting towards a mandated requirement under Montana law it will never fly.

 

[Johnyt101]

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So there have been a few hang ups with this bill in the senate. But dont give up guys, freedom will always win if you fight for it! I will be visiting Montana for the first time this summer and would love for this bill to be passed.

Is the biggest problem the senate is having with the bill the brandishing part? Can the bill do without it?

I know the NRA has made it their number one priority, so does that give it some more steam? And does it have any chance of passing without being gutted too much?

Sorry for all the questions, I live in StalIllinois so I dont get much news and updates concerning this bill. I just would love to see another state get consitutional carry!

 

[MT GUNNY]

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I thinkOur Biggest Opposition is the Elected Police Officials as Reported in the newspapers of the big City's