NH Open Carry Cop Stop questions.

[ptrdsmn]

Hello,

I have a a license to carry concealed just to put it out there. I'm from Lincoln, New Hampshire and I Open Carry sometimes when I walk around town. I never been stopped by the cops yet but had a few questions to clear up just in case.

When Open Carry and stopped....

1.) Do I have to show the Cop my ID card? What am I required to tell him about myself if anything at all?

2.) Can a Cop here in New Hampshire take my sidearm at anytime to see if its loaded or to just hold on to it during the stop? Do I have to tell him if its loaded or not? I know for instance in California where you can carry a gun just not loaded so they have whats called a 12031(e) check. The cop takes your gun and sees if there is ammo in the chamber.

I think that's all the questions I really have. I've seen lots of videos on youtube with people open carry and being stopped in New Hampshire. RidleyReport mostly videos. I havn't been stopped yet here in Lincoln but I'm sure its a matter of time before a "Masshole" or somebody calls the cops on me and I'm already sure I "will not" give my ID card to the cop if I don't have too or tell him my name etc nor allow him to take my sidearm out of my holster to check it/hold on too. If anyone knows of some good info/laws I can actually tell the officer when he tries to BS me on stuff would be helpfull.

Thanks

 

[doobie]

1) No you are not required to show ID. You don't have to tell them anything. An officer is only allowed to ask you for your name/address if they believe you committed a crime, are committing a crime, or will commit a crime. I do not believe the law requires you to answer.
Officer: "Can I see your papers?"
You: "Do you believe I committed a crime, are committing a crime, or will commit a crime?"
Officer: "No."
You: "Am I being detained?"
Officer: "No."
you: "Am I free to go?"
Yes="Thank you, have a good day officer
anything but yes = "Am I free to go?" and repeat.

2) I wouldn't let them, and I've never had them. I know people who have had an officer take their pistol then point it at them as they are clearing it.

http://www.youtube.com/OpenCarryNH/

 

[ptrdsmn]

RSA 594:2 states the following: Questioning and Detaining Suspects. – A peace officer may stop any person abroad whom he has reason to suspect is committing, has committed or is about to commit a crime, and may demand of him his name, address, business abroad and where he is going.

I see this stated a lot on Youtube with the Dave Ridley videos I believe. When asked by the police officer for an ID card, I've seen several people rufuse to give an ID and I think I even seen Ridley himself refuse to give ID but told the cop his name and what town he is from. However it doesn't state that the person is "required" to show an ID, nor answer any questions. Like you said I've seen people on RidleyReport just repeat lines like "am I being detained?" or "am I free to go" with some people requesting to speak to the officers supervisor or police chief immediatly.

http://www.examiner.com/article/fed...cannot-detain-people-for-openly-carrying-guns

I guess that link asnwers my question if ever a Police Officer detains me and disarms me...I can sue the sh*t out of them for violation of my 4th Amendment rights. It apears that I'm not required to identify myself at all either as long as I'm legally carrying and not committing a crime, about to, or in proceess with resonable suspicion under the 4th amendment. 594: 2 only states that a cop can ask....hahha. I can't believe how many websites I've been visiting to answer these questions.

It also states in that article that Police Officers given their status does not give them immunity from prosecution.

 

[ptrdsmn]

Interesting to find out that I've been reading on 4th Amendment violations related to legally open carry situations and the settlements I've been reading range mostly in the 15-30k area but some are even more. Makes me wish for a town cop here in Lincoln, NH or anywhere to disarm me and/or take my ID/social security number without my consent $$$$$!

 

[doobie]

Interesting to find out that I've been reading on 4th Amendment violations related to legally open carry situations and the settlements I've been reading range mostly in the 15-30k area but some are even more. Makes me wish for a town cop here in Lincoln, NH or anywhere to disarm me and/or take my ID/social security number without my consent $$$$$!

Probably a 10-25k lawyer bill too.

 

[tazxrulz]

Was about to post a thread asking about stop and id statues in NH as I plan to open carry in Hampton Beach this summer... So as I understand it §594:2 allows them only to ask for my info and I can decline to provide that information without the possibility of them placing me under arrest.

 

[doobie]

Was about to post a thread asking about stop and id statues in NH as I plan to open carry in Hampton Beach this summer... So as I understand it §594:2 allows them only to ask for my info and I can decline to provide that information without the possibility of them placing me under arrest.

You are correct. I have only once identified myself and that was the first time. Never since then. "Are you detaining me? Am I free to go?" Keep asking until you get an answer. If you get a yes/no to the questions respectively, request a lawyer and take your right to remain silent.

 

[Halliday]

Was about to post a thread asking about stop and id statues in NH as I plan to open carry in Hampton Beach this summer... So as I understand it §594:2 allows them only to ask for my info and I can decline to provide that information without the possibility of them placing me under arrest.

COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: LEO Bashing

 

[MKEgal]

Halliday -
Welcome to OCDO. Please re-read the forum rules (the ones you agreed to follow when you signed up). There's a link in that tan bar just above where the messages start.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

(6) NO PERSONAL ATTACKS: While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks or general bashing of groups of people based upon race, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, gender-identity or choice of occupation (e.g., being a law enforcement officer, in the military, etc).

Officer: "Can I see your papers?"
You: "Do you believe I committed a crime, am committing a crime, or will commit a crime?

Better yet:
Officer: "Show me your papers."
You: "Why am I being detained?"
(Thank you, Citizen.)
Because if you have to ask whether or not you're being detained, you're being detained.
Once you feel you aren't free to go, you're being detained / under arrest.
That puts the officer on notice that you feel that you're being detained, so s/he has to make it clear that you're not (if you're really not).

"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.

"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley

The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles (3rd Cir. 2000)

The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King (10th Cir. 1993)

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

a) Don't Carry 'papers' unless you are intending to purchase alcoholic beverages, airline tickets or cash a check. Leave your driving license in your car unless your state requires you to carry it when carrying a firearm (I've heard there are one or two that do.)

b) "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law." Notice anything missing there, like 'something you say that clears you will be introduced in your favor in court"? No? Because anything you say to Officer Friendly in your own defense, "I didn't kill that guy, I was three states away at the time!" is considered hearsay and can't be used in court. Say nothing beyond the minimum.

c) "I'll answer any questions you have in court." There, you're offered to cooperate; you're not obstructing his investigation. You may not be helping, but you're not standing in his way of asking questions.

Officer Friendly is asking questions to confirm what he thinks he knows and to gather evidence. If you provide him with a reasonable suspicion he's going to use that to bolster his unformed 'hunch'.

 

[Halliday]

Halliday -
Welcome to OCDO. Please re-read the forum rules (the ones you agreed to follow when you signed up). There's a link in that tan bar just above where the messages start.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules



Better yet:
Officer: "Show me your papers."
You: "Why am I being detained?"
(Thank you, Citizen.)
Because if you have to ask whether or not you're being detained, you're being detained.
Once you feel you aren't free to go, you're being detained / under arrest.
That puts the officer on notice that you feel that you're being detained, so s/he has to make it clear that you're not (if you're really not).

"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.

"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley

The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles (3rd Cir. 2000)

The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King (10th Cir. 1993)

MKEgal
Duly noted. Great site with lots if information.

 

[doobie]

Halliday -
Welcome to OCDO. Please re-read the forum rules (the ones you agreed to follow when you signed up). There's a link in that tan bar just above where the messages start.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules



Better yet:
Officer: "Show me your papers."
You: "Why am I being detained?"
(Thank you, Citizen.)
Because if you have to ask whether or not you're being detained, you're being detained.
Once you feel you aren't free to go, you're being detained / under arrest.
That puts the officer on notice that you feel that you're being detained, so s/he has to make it clear that you're not (if you're really not).

"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."
Miller v. U.S.

"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."
St. John v. McColley

The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.
United States v. Ubiles (3rd Cir. 2000)

The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
United States v. King (10th Cir. 1993)

Actually, my wording for NH was valid. An LEO has no legal authority to detain or ask for a persons name/other info unless they have reason to believe they do not believe they have committed, are committing, or will commit a crime. I've walked away from LEO's who have answered no to my question. They have usually just radioed in that, "person refused to ID, nothing else we can do."