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Nicholasville Preemption Violations

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
707
Location
Central Ky.
The following is a repost from KC3's Facebook page.

ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO ONE OF US COULD SOMEDAY BE DONE TO ANY OF US. YOUR CITY COULD BE NEXT TO DO THIS.

In March of this year, the City of Nicholasville adopted a new employee policy. That policy revision included prohibitions on City employees carrying firearms in city owned buildings and vehicles. You can see portions of that policy revision here:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/63eabhabyp826w2/Niicholasville I.pdf?dl=0

This policy violates KRS 65.870. The policy makes no distinction between concealed and openly carried firearms. In situations where the City employee possesses a concealed carry license, the policy would also violate the "concealed carry law", KRS 237.110. In subsection (17) of that statute, you will find this, "A private but not a public employer may prohibit employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer,..."

This policy also violates the very statute that gives the City of Nicholasville authority to operate, the Home Rule statute, KRS 82.082. Which requires a city to obey all state statutes.

For the last six weeks members of the KC3 Board of Directors have been in contact with the representatives of the City of Nicholasville concerning this illegal activity and to this point, no action has been taken by the City to bring them into compliance with the laws of the Commonwealth of Ky. and no assurances have been given that actions will ever be taken.

The City Commissioners have a scheduled meeting set for Monday, August 12 in the City Hall Board Room, 517 Main Street, in Nicholasville, at 5 pm. KC3 Board members will be present at this meeting and confronting the Commissioners with their violations of state law. This meeting is open to the public and anyone that is interested in this issue is urged to attend. Please remember, concealed carry is not authorized at meetings of the of the legislative body of a local government. Open carry is not restricted. Please be polite and respectful.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
707
Location
Central Ky.
The Commissioners meeting in Nicholasville was not very productive. I waited for my turn to speak and after just a few words the City Attorney interrupted and said that they were going to deal with the issue later in the meeting. I sat down and waited. They voted to rescind the original policy and replace it with another policy that prohibits employees from carrying CONCEALED weapons in BUILDINGS. That is some better than what they had but still not in compliance with the law. Cities cannot prohibit concealed weapons by POLICY. They must pass an ORDINANCE. Soon after this, the meeting was adjourned and everybody started to leave. I shouted to the mayor, "Mr. Mayor your gun problems are not solved. You cannot ban guns with policies, period." The City Attorney pushed his way over to me and said send me an email. I think they were all confused and embarrassed. I sent the email last night. Today I got a reply saying he'd look at what I had sent and get back with me. He should have done that last week before this fubar. Later this morning I got a call from the editor of the Jessimine Journal newspaper. I explained the problem to Ms. Fuller and she seemed to understand the whole thing immediately. She asked why they didn't just pass an ordinance in the first place. That was the only question I could not answer.

They are going to take another swing at this fastball at the next meeting, if they don't just wash their hands of the whole thing and declare that the whole issue is too tough for them.

I was openly carrying a beautiful stainless 2" 357 Mag. on my right hip. There was not one word said about it. When I first arrived, the Chief of Police was sitting in the far corner of the room and about 10 mins. later 2 officers came in and stood directly behind me for the rest of the night.
 

Chief Ten Beers

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
171
Location
Western Kentucky
At least the chief of police was kind enough to send you personal body guards. Shows he cares. ;)
Did you thank him for the personal protection when you left? :)
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
707
Location
Central Ky.
Everything that Mr. Simmons says or writes at this point to designed to save his reputation. That is going to be increasing harder to do. He now is faced with telling the City Commissioners that they have to change the policy that he just told them they had to pass. Then he will have to tell them they have to pass an ordinance that he has said they don't need. Then he has to explain that none of this really isn't required, its just to make me happy. Very tough assignment.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,039
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Everything that Mr. Simmons says or writes at this point to designed to save his reputation. That is going to be increasing harder to do. He now is faced with telling the City Commissioners that they have to change the policy that he just told them they had to pass. Then he will have to tell them they have to pass an ordinance that he has said they don't need. Then he has to explain that none of this really isn't required, its just to make me happy. Very tough assignment.
Wouldn't you want to make this guy happy?
13672
GUTSHOT II
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
707
Location
Central Ky.
At a meeting of the Nicholasville City Commissioners on Monday, August 26, a city ordinance that prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons in all buildings belonging to the City of Nicholasville was given its first reading. This ordinance appears to be in compliance with KRS 237.115. It will be given its second reading and final adoption at the next meeting. This replaces their old policy that prohibited all weapons from city vehicles and prohibited a city employee from carrying a firearm by any manner while at work. The city cannot ban open carry and they now know that they can't. They cannot ban guns in vehicles and now they know that they can't. They cannot ban a city employee from carrying outside of a city building and they now know that.

I have also had an ongoing discussion with the Mayor of Oak Grove, Ky. over some city policies

I have exchanged a few emails with Mayor Jarvis over the last three weeks. Today, I called to get an update. The Mayor told me that the entire employee policy manual is being revised and the section concerning employees carrying firearms that we have complained about will be removed. I told her about the Fire Dept. policy and she said she was unaware of it but would look into it and if it was as I described it would also be removed. She is a very pleasant woman and very much to the point. I hate to do these things on the phone. Emails allow you to actually show the documents to the people you want to see them. Verbal descriptions are difficult. This conversation progressed much faster than I had expected. I had expected a little push back but there was none. I asked for her to send copies of the changes when they are made.

The original employee policy that started this can be seen here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oiscldwy55ya1hm/OakGroveemployee policy.pdf?dl=0

Since my original contact with the City, I have also become aware of this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubjkwxym8ke7hpe/InShot_20190830_231222086-1073390.jpg?dl=0


On a completely different problem, when I was on the way to Nicholasville for the last City Commissioners meeting I did some looking around and found this sign on the Jessamine-South Elkhorn Water District office building:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6gfehys52m420o6/20190826_163049.jpg?dl=0

and here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7460ikigkv9ado9/20190826_163031.jpg?dl=0

I sent an open records request to the Chairman of the Board to see if there was anything else. I guess they are pretty smart people because they knew what I was looking for and why. I never mentioned the sign or that I had a picture of it. I never said anything about the state law. I just ask them to send me copies of their policies. Today I got an email from their attorney. Here is what he said:

Dear gutshot:

Mr. Strong is not the custodian of records, but he has given me your email request (copied below in italics) for response. I am general counsel for the Water District. The Water District’s Board considered your request at its regular monthly meeting today.

I will respond to your open records request in the same numerical order as you made it in your email below.

1.

The Water District does not have any policy, rule, regulation or any other form of administrative action with regard to the possession, carrying, ownership, transportation or storage of firearms on Jessamine-South Elkhorn Water District property or in Jessamine-South Elkhorn Water District vehicles by the general public or by District employees.

2.

The only signs, pictures, drawings or other depictions of firearms posted on District property or vehicles is attached. An exact duplicate of this same sign was posted not only on the front of the Water District office next to the initial entry door, as depicted in the picture, but also just inside the entry door into the building on the right-hand side wall.

The Water District Board voted unanimously today to remove the aforementioned signs and not repost them. I trust this response will permit
us to close this matter.

So, to summarize, Nicholasville is finished. The resolution is not what I would have liked but all that we can demand under the law.
Oak Grove seems headed for a complete resolution and a complete victory was thrown in for free at the Water District. Not a bad days work.
 
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