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OC (or CC) at "public demonstrations"

BB62

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I've read various places that AL has a law against carrying (OC or CC) at "public demonstrations. A couple of questions if I may...

1) Does this law currently stand?

2) If so, I presumes this means no OC "demonstrations"?

Any info (especially info with current links) would be greatly appreciated.
 

SFCRetired

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That would be Section 13a-11-59 of the Code of Alabama, which defines a demonstration as: (1) DEMONSTRATION. Demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking or marching, holding of vigils and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. Such term shall not include casual use of property by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

Yes, this law is still very much in effect. Section (c) of that law restricts firearms within 1,000 feet of a demonstration:
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

This, and other firearm laws may be found at
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/alison/codeofalabama/1975/coatoc.htm
 
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BB62

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That would be Section 13a-11-59 of the Code of Alabama, which defines a demonstration as: (1) DEMONSTRATION. Demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking or marching, holding of vigils and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. Such term shall not include casual use of property by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

Yes, this law is still very much in effect. Section (c) of that law restricts firearms within 1,000 feet of a demonstration:
(c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

This, and other firearm laws may be found at
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/alison/codeofalabama/1975/coatoc.htm
Thank you. Do you have any idea what were the origins of this part of the law?


This statute would seem to say that if Alabamans want to hold a demonstration in support of their 1st and 2nd Amendment and Alabama Rights regarding firearms ... that they may NOT be armed?
Ripe for a challenge, IMHO.

I wonder if airsoft guns (many of which are very realistic-looking) qualify as "arms"?
 

SFCRetired

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Thank you. Do you have any idea what were the origins of this part of the law?



Ripe for a challenge, IMHO.

I wonder if airsoft guns (many of which are very realistic-looking) qualify as "arms"?
To answer the first question: I suspect that this law, as were many other anti-gun pieces of legislation, was aimed at the black community as was the law requiring a permit to carry a loaded pistol in one's car. It is possible that this was a legislative backlash to certain radical black civil rights groups. Bear in mind that this is speculation based on my seventy-plus years of living in, and observing, Alabama. It's my birth state, but sometimes I have to scratch my head and wonder.

It is very ripe for a challenge, but any challenge would be, as a certain bill is now, opposed rather vehemently by the two major law enforcement "unions" in Alabama. They would probably be very swift to file amicus briefs purporting to show how this would endanger the lives of law enforcement.

I have seen nothing in either statutory or case law (Alabama) addressing the issue of airsoft guns. I would suspect that, if they did not have the orange tip, law enforcement would treat the bearer the same as if it were a real firearm. I would not want to test that theory.

Why, yes, I am a cynical old codger. Why do you ask?:D
 
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SFCRetired

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Well, I didn't ask, but I prefer to consider you wise and experienced! ;)

What does AL have in terms of RKBA activists or activist groups?
The few groups of which I am aware I am not impressed. So far, I have seen at least two groups break up and the one group that is still in existence......

If you do FaceBook, there are a couple of pages that bear looking at to gain a knowledge of what is really going on.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Thank you. Do you have any idea what were the origins of this part of the law?
I would presume the origins of the law are just the same as those of other states of the time.
Black folks gathering up and protesting was considered them being 'uppity' and had to be discouraged. White folks, of course, wouldn't be arrested for the same conduct. It was a product of the times.

For an in-depth look at how it all began in Georgia (and by extension in other Southern states) I recommend The Racist Roots of Georgia's Gun Laws.
 

KBCraig

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As for "within 1000' of a demonstration", or even at a demonstration for that matter... I've never seen a demonstration with clear lines of demarcation.
 

SFCRetired

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As for "within 1000' of a demonstration", or even at a demonstration for that matter... I've never seen a demonstration with clear lines of demarcation.
You're right, they usually don't. But I will guarantee you that, if you get within that 1000' perimeter (as defined by local LE)
while armed, you will hear about it. There will be more undercover cops there than you can shake a stick at! And another whole bunch of local and state LE in uniform. Would you believe that there has actually been a "demonstration" where there were more LE than there were demonstrators?:D
 

DeSchaine

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How can they possibly enforce that? I mean, if the "demonstration" is a march, and you're already at some public spot, completely legal BEFORE the march, and they move to within the 1000' mark of you, are you still in violation of the law?
 

SFCRetired

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How can they possibly enforce that? I mean, if the "demonstration" is a march, and you're already at some public spot, completely legal BEFORE the march, and they move to within the 1000' mark of you, are you still in violation of the law?
We never said that the laws in the Great State of Alabama made a whole lot of sense. And, whether you move or the demonstration/march moves, if you are within that 1000', you can be cited. I have no idea if that has been done in recent years, but am pretty sure it was done during the late fifties and through the sixties. Very selectively, I might add.

Remember this: Alabama has always had the best politicians money can buy. Where else would you find a farmer, preacher, and governor convicted of felony ethics violations and removed from office? Yes, all three were the same man.
 

SFCRetired

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This statute would seem to say that if Alabamans want to hold a demonstration in support of their 1st and 2nd Amendment and Alabama Rights regarding firearms ... that they may NOT be armed?
Mr. Canby, I do apologize. I overlooked your question. I can only plead a "senior moment."

To answer your question: Some time back, we had a demonstration on the capitol lawn in support of our 1st and 2nd Amendment and Alabama firearm rights. It was put out well in advance that we could not be armed, either OC or CC. There were Capitol Police and State Troopers eyeing everyone going into the area. Bottom line: Ridiculous as it may be, Alabamians may not be armed at such a demonstration.

I pointed out to BB62 that this is another one of our outdated laws which were passed in the furtherance of the repression of the Civil Rights Movement. It, and the others, failed in their purpose, but are still on the books and can be enforced.
 
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