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Open Carry in Practice: Who's done it? | Vigilance Elite

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
here nc
there are two kinds of attention...this bloke doesn't seem to care which he receives...
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,824
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
For personal convenience, I typically OC whenever the weather permits. In the 10+ years I've been carrying, my experience is that most people don't take notice, and most that did have said "Thank you.". A few had questions, like "Where did you get your holster?" or "What are you carrying?". I took these encounters as opportunities to inform and educate. I always have some VCDL "Carry Cards" (https://vcdl.org/CarryInfo) with me for such situations.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
All my life the majority of the time.
There are times I cc ,inside funerals, or where its nessacary to remain armed due to GFZ , which up until lately due to personal circumstances wasnt that often.

We are by and large becoming a nation of pansys when the mere sight of a gun in a holster or carried slung gets a fearful response.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,881
Location
El Paso, TX
I OC exclusively (here in El Paso, TX, yes, our "beloved" Beto O'Rourke's liberal/Democrat home town!), but NOT in Walmarts or supermarkets anymore due to their recent policy changes (CC there instead as I won't be UNarmed). Even before said policy changes, however, in the 3 years I've been back from CO (since 2016) I've seen NO other OCers here in ELP EVER. Or even when I go up to NM to visit have I seen any OCers. :-(
Am going back to CO in a year...didn't see a lot of OCers there, but at least I saw SOME.
IMO, OCing is never going to be a common thing...I'm guessing most people are too timid to do it (it does take a stronger person) and/or believe the 3 major myths perpetually parroted by ignorant (and proud of it/won't change) OC critics:
"If you OC,
-- you'll be the first one shot."
-- you lose your element-of-surprise."
-- someone will grab your gun."
So I don't expect to get anyone I meet (I also have conversations like member 2a4all above mentioned, and also have a personal Open Carry El Paso "business card" I give people) to OPEN carry like me (I know they probably won't), but I always DO encourage them to get their CC permit (if their state requires one) and start CARRYING...instead of "just thinking about it" as some have told me.
In the 11 years I've been involved with OCing -- and spreading the pro-gun gospel (if you will) -- I hope at least a few of those people I've personally talked to (in 3 states: TX, NM and CO) actually ARE carrying now...but I'll never really know.
 
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ADulay

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
499
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
For personal convenience, I typically OC whenever the weather permits. In the 10+ years I've been carrying, my experience is that most people don't take notice, and most that did have said "Thank you.". A few had questions, like "Where did you get your holster?" or "What are you carrying?". I took these encounters as opportunities to inform and educate.
Your experiences are very similar to mine.

The thing I hear the most from people asking questions is "I didn't know you could do that."

AD
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
here nc
Your experiences are very similar to mine.

The thing I hear the most from people asking questions is "I didn't know you could do that."

AD
ADulay...the comment that gets me chuckling out loud...

no only LE can open carry and i know you're too olde to be LE...👴🏻

[really?
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,275
Location
northern wis
99% of comments have been positive.

Talked with another OCer at the local wally world the other day while we were checking out.

Casher heard us tacking guns and open carry not a blink just kept ringing items up.

A lot hype about nothing made by the anti's.

One just has to realize they hate carry no matter what type.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,272
Location
Iowa, USA
I OC exclusively (here in El Paso, TX, yes, our "beloved" Beto O'Rourke's liberal/Democrat home town!), but NOT in Walmarts or supermarkets anymore due to their recent policy changes (CC there instead as I won't be UNarmed). Even before said policy changes, however, in the 3 years I've been back from CO (since 2016) I've seen NO other OCers here in ELP EVER. Or even when I go up to NM to visit have I seen any OCers. :-(
Am going back to CO in a year...didn't see a lot of OCers there, but at least I saw SOME.
IMO, OCing is never going to be a common thing...I'm guessing most people are too timid to do it (it does take a stronger person) and/or believe the 3 major myths perpetually parroted by ignorant (and proud of it/won't change) OC critics:
"If you OC,
-- you'll be the first one shot."
-- you lose your element-of-surprise."
-- someone will grab your gun."
So I don't expect to get anyone I meet (I also have conversations like member 2a4all above mentioned, and also have a personal Open Carry El Paso "business card" I give people) to OPEN carry like me (I know they probably won't), but I always DO encourage them to get their CC permit (if their state requires one) and start CARRYING...instead of "just thinking about it" as some have told me.
In the 11 years I've been involved with OCing -- and spreading the pro-gun gospel (if you will) -- I hope at least a few of those people I've personally talked to (in 3 states: TX, NM and CO) actually ARE carrying now...but I'll never really know.
The truth, IMHO, is that we are less likely to be targeted by a "criminal who will take us out first because we are armed", and more likely to be confronted by a rabid anti gunner who is triggered by the site of our "death machine" and will cause a disturbance that will likely end with the police showing up. And then we are likely to get a cop who will forget about our rights and treat us like a criminal simply because we chose to exercise our rights. Now, obviously that depends on the region you live in, but we see it all too often.
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,881
Location
El Paso, TX
@ Tucker6900:
True, I AM concerned about that happening (but then I'm more concerned about "misunderstandings" with cops than I am with criminals anyway).
As for where I am presently, however, no issues with any anti-gunners or police (so far) -- or in CO and NM. In fact, in all the ~11 years I've been OCing (and in said 3 states), and encountering/talking to a number of cops and state troopers, not one anti-gunner encounter or one "unpleasant" LEO encounter. I DID have one "kind of anti" remark from a Grandpa inside a Colorado Springs Walmart (back in 2013 or so) -- "Why do you need a firearm in a Walmart?" -- but he didn't pursue the issue...so I didn't, either. Still, Gramps was with his 2 grand-kids, and I was thinking the old guy couldn't even protect HIMSELF let alone his grand-kids, as they look to HIM for protection yet he couldn't provide any. So really, clueless Gramps ALSO needs to be carrying...and even in a Walmart as events since then at several Walmarts across America have clearly shown!
But that's only ONE "kind of negative" reaction to my OCing I've experienced in ~11 years...but not any in-your-face rabid liberal confrontation. Ever.
Still, quite a few LEOs (meaning El Paso, TX, city police -- EPPD) don't seem to be very observant. For example, a few months ago (right after the mass shooting here in El Paso at that Walmart Supercenter) I encountered a city cop (moonlighting as store security) @ the front door of a local BestBuy (of all places!) when I walked in OCing, and I asked him if he needed to see my permit (because I knew some stores here tell their security to ask any OCer coming in, some stores don't) -- I don't think he noticed I was OCing until I started talking to him! He said no he didn't need to see my permit, and "he wasn't worried about citizens like me carrying because he knows we have their backs." I agreed, but said "If anything happens, I'm going to get behind you since you're the one wearing the vest." He thought that was amusing...
I encountered city cops at least 3 other times at other local Walmart Supercenters in town, and they also didn't notice I was OCing -- until I talked to them.
Note: One cop at a Walmart Supercenter said most CCers inform him they are carrying, so the cops know they are in the store and where...but I don't think that's any official policy. I don't inform them, but do often talk to them to find out where they're at on the subject of citizens carrying, etc. For example, one "icebreaker" question I ask, "Have you seen any OCers trying to come into the store lately?" ;-)
At a Walmart Neighborhood Market some months back, they had private (but armed) security instead of city cops, and HE noticed my OCing before I even got inside the door, but at THAT time (immediately after the Walmart shooting, but before they came out with the "OC Ban" policy -- with most of the supermarkets soon following) Walmart had NOT banned OCing so my gun was in the holster then. He didn't know TX carry laws and seemed like he wasn't going to let me enter, so I had to do some education, but afterwards I WAS allowed in the store OCing. However, he seemed a bit "disturbed" and asked me "not to create a panic." I said, "Hey, I'm one of the Good Guys." ;-)
At another Walmart Neighborhood Market more recently, they had 1 armed private security at the 1 (and only) front door, but she didn't notice my empty holster. I know this because she seemed clueless when I passed right in front of her, and later on my way out there were TWO of them there at the door, and I overheard that lady security seeing my empty holster and telling her male partner. He asked her, "Oh, you didn't see him in the store earlier?" By that time I was out the door...and as per usual, I immediately went from CCing to OCing: Take my gun out of an inside pocket of my "biker vest" (appropriately called their "Gunslinger" model, as it has 2 built-in magazine carriers) and put it into my previously empty holster. I do that ASAP when leaving a store that has banned OCing (but in stores like Home Depot, Lowes, banks, Denny's, IHOP, etc, I still OC as per usual) as I am not used to drawing from my vest pocket (and the gun is too difficult to get OUT of said pocket), I'm used to drawing from my OWB cross-draw! After all, I wouldn't want to reach for an EMPTY holster under stress (someone trying to mug me in the parking lot) -- at the very least it'd be embarrassing, at worst it could be fatal. So I reholster as soon as I'm outside the store and back in the parking lot.
At another Walmart Supercenter -- with TWO doors to the building -- there was a pair of LEOs (a city cop and private security) "guarding" one of the doors to the building, and they didn't notice me either, mainly because I had come in the unguarded OTHER door...but I wasn't OCing, just had an empty holster (was CCing instead, due to said OC Ban) but given I OC with my cross-draw holster almost centered up front, to the immediate right of my belt buckle, it's kind of obvious (more so than a side-carried OWB holster). And I walked right behind them both while I was in the store going to the registers and they still didn't notice me. Had I been up to no good, they'd be in trouble as they had their backs to me and their SA was minimal.
Concerned about these store security lapses -- and on behalf of all the customers in there probably thinking they're "safe" now -- I spoke to the store manager and suggested the 2 "security" people stop socializing at one door, split up and cover BOTH doors -- I told her I came in the UNguarded OTHER door that had ZERO security, so if some shooter chose that door they'd get in without any resistance. I also suggested she speak to the "security" as they might want to be more aware of their surroundings -- for their OWN safety.
I also mentioned I was an OCer -- noting my empty holster -- but wasn't OCing then due to respecting their new policy (but WAS CCing) -- and maybe it was just people like me (carriers) who noticed at least the obvious flaws in a store's security...but she agreed the matter needed attention, especially as the 2 officers were about 20' away from us and still socializing vs. paying attention.
Those are just some of my "adventures" with LEOs & store security while out & about OCing here in "Beto Land." ;-)
Oh...one more amusing story -- from yesterday:
Went to a local Honda dealership for 3 service items to be done -- I'm CCing but have my empty holster visible (partly because I have to remove my belt completely to remove the holster so I don't) -- so I'm walking around the showroom with my free Mocha Latte and popcorn waiting for my Pilot and looking at the very nice (!) Tepui rooftop tent on top of the Honda Passport and after a while the Finance Manager comes out and yells at me (from about 30 feet away), "You can't be wearing an empty holster in here without a gun in it." I told him I was not OCing because they USED to have a "No OCing" sign up at the front door (meaning, citing the Texas 30.07 law that bans OCing, but did NOT have a 30.06 sign banning CCing also) so "I'm not OCing today" as I remember that sign up some years back (but said I WAS CCing). I told him the place apparently had some Weenies back then and also apparently BECAUSE OF ME OCing there (about 5 years ago) they put up the 30.07 sign. When they remodeled the front of the building a 2-3 (?) years ago, they didn't put the 30.07 sign back up -- but I KNEW they had it up earlier, so I went in (CCing) with an empty OC holster, just in case (to avoid any unpleasant "confrontations"). But he was only joking with me as he then said he was a CCer and even showed me his official gold-toned "Concealed Carrier" BADGE in his wallet! I would have shown him MY badge -- an authentic Hawaii Five-0 badge (from original Jack Lord series) -- but it's kept in my safe @ home. Some other Honda staff...and as well 2 customers there at the "negotiating" table who heard all this seemed to be either CCers or pro-gunners. We talked about carrying (& guns) for a few minutes and then I let the manager get back to "negotiating" with (fleecing?) his 2 buyers...
Still, I'm not sure if they'd want me to be OCing there NOW even with no 30.07 sign posted. He said he told the upper management about the missing sign but no one put it back up. I guess since they hadn't seen me in 3+ years (was living in Colorado Springs then) they forgot about the OCer (Yours Truly) that started it all, the guy who used to go there and scare people who saw him OCing (I guess) so they didn't rehang the sign after the remodeling was done...but it's probably still on the premises in some closet and if I re-started OCing there, it'd come back out. So I'll leave things be and leave it to some OTHER OCer to try OCing there and see what happens...that is if there ARE any other OCers here in ELP, as they're rare as Unicorns: Although some store EPPD cops have told me they've seen some OCers, I've seen NONE in the 3+ years I've been back. Zero. :-(
Anyway, now that I AM back (but only for 9 more months and then I return to Colorado Springs) -- and despite this apparently not-gun-UNfriendly incident @ Honda -- I'll still only CC there in the future, as I suspect there still be Weenies in those waters. ;-)
 
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mnrobitaille

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
305
Location
Kahlotus, WA
I prefer to open carry over concealed carry, lately. It just all depends on the plans of the day. Been doing more trips to Costco lately & know their dislike for responsibly armed citizenry, so have to CC when going there.

Unfortunately winter is here & been doing a bit more CC over OC.
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,057
Location
Lawton, OK USA
When I lived in WA I used to OC all the time with no issue even at my bank. I'm now in OK which no longer requires a permit to carry, but I have one anyway since it is accepted in 38 states. I CC here only because I haven't seen anyone OC till yesterday at Walmart (1911).
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,881
Location
El Paso, TX
Note: One reason I prefer OC exclusively is I can do two (and muy importante, IMO) things CCers can NOT do: "D&E" -- meaning Desensitizing and Educating.
Simply by being SEEN carrying I am getting something accomplished even if passively (just OCing, with no extra effort on my part) -- the "D" part -- even though I may not speak to anyone, as people (customers, staff/management) see someone who is NOT a cop carrying a firearm -- and yet contrary to popular but ignorant news media (and many other people) belief, nothing bad happened! In other words, getting people used to seeing guns on citizens in public, without the negatives often associated with that in the news or hyped by politicians.
As for the "E" part -- Educating -- that happens if someone approaches me and asks questions (I don't bring it up myself so I don't seem pushy about it)...sometimes it's a long conversation! And I give them my card so they know who they were talking to and can contact me if they need any more info (such as taking their TX LTC permit class, gun & ammo choices, secure gun storage, etc.). And since I know MOST people (99.99%) -- including most CCers -- won't ever OC, I just encourage them to get their CC permit vs. "thinking about it." And sooner vs. later!
Again, CCers can't do either of those things because (of course!) people don't see a CCer's gun. By doing D&E, I hope eventually it may lead to "N" -- Normalizing -- probably not, true, but it's still worth my effort. In mathspeak, it'd be D+E=N. ;-)
I see OCing as ONE "grass roots" way of doing better "winning the Hearts & Minds" of the general public, but we need LOTS MORE carriers out there OCing! The job is way too big for a Lone Wolf here and there as OCers are spread too thin presently.
Even the "Thin Blue Line" is WAY wider! ;-)
 
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Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
There is a fairly straight forward answer to the cc , oc debate.
Most instructors push CC. Yet they advise " flapping your jacket " to show a perceived potential threat you are armed to dissuade the potential attacker.
Which is basically simply going from cc to oc as a deterrent.
Might as well OC to begin with.
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,824
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
There is a fairly straight forward answer to the cc , oc debate.
Most instructors push CC. Yet they advise " flapping your jacket " to show a perceived potential threat you are armed to dissuade the potential attacker.
Which is basically simply going from cc to oc as a deterrent.
Might as well OC to begin with.
Every instructor I know definitely advises AGAINST such an action in Virginia, as it could be considered brandishing, or even an escalation of the situation (Perp sees your "jacket flapping" as a threat, draws his gun and defends himself against you.). If the threat is of such a severity as to require you to reach for your firearm, then draw it and use it. No warning shots! If the perp flees in response to your action and before you shoot, hold your fire. There is a very fine line here, so be sure of your actions.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
here nc
Every instructor I know definitely advises AGAINST such an action in Virginia, as it could be considered brandishing, or even an escalation of the situation (Perp sees your "jacket flapping" as a threat, draws his gun and defends himself against you.). If the threat is of such a severity as to require you to reach for your firearm, then draw it and use it. No warning shots! If the perp flees in response to your action and before you shoot, hold your fire. There is a very fine line here, so be sure of your actions.
very thin line i would imagine across the country...the barristers are getting rich from the fine line ~ zimmerman's case comes to mind!
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
Every instructor I know definitely advises AGAINST such an action in Virginia, as it could be considered brandishing, or even an escalation of the situation (Perp sees your "jacket flapping" as a threat, draws his gun and defends himself against you.). If the threat is of such a severity as to require you to reach for your firearm, then draw it and use it. No warning shots! If the perp flees in response to your action and before you shoot, hold your fire. There is a very fine line here, so be sure of your actions.
How many do you know?.

Every state isn't Virginia. Many states have no brandishing law, mine included.

As far as when to draw that varies by state also. Mine I can carry my pistol in my hand all day and be perfectly legal.

I'm not talking about NRA or concealed carry class instructors.

My point as I plainly stated is many instructors , and there are plenty , just google it that espouse doing what amounts to openly showing your weapon to deter an attack, which is automatically done by open carry.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,729
Location
here nc
How many do you know?.

Every state isn't Virginia. Many states have no brandishing law, mine included.

As far as when to draw that varies by state also. Mine I can carry my pistol in my hand all day and be perfectly legal.

I'm not talking about NRA or concealed carry class instructors.

My point as I plainly stated is many instructors , and there are plenty , just google it that espouse doing what amounts to openly showing your weapon to deter an attack, which is automatically done by open carry.
alas Ghost, et al., a rose by any other name is still a violation of KY 508.050 ~ Menacing, quote:
(1) A person is guilty of menacing when he intentionally places another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury.
(2) Menacing is a Class B misdemeanor.
Effective:January 1, 1975 History: Created 1974 Ky. Acts ch. 406, sec. 69, effective January 1, 1975.
 
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