Petersburg Police: Cash for Guns!!

[TFred]

I'm surprised nobody posted Philip's update in the VA-ALERT, which came out around 5PM today. In the interest of completeness, I'll post it below.

TFred

*********************************************
1. Update on Petersburg gun buy-up
*********************************************

Today I talked with Brian Telfair, the City Attorney for Petersburg, about this weekend's gun buy-up (not a buy-back because Petersburg never owned the guns).

I've had good luck in working with Mr. Telfair before on an issue dealing with an outdated air gun ordinance. He is professional, courteous, and returns calls.

Mr. Telfair was aware that Petersburg cannot participate in any gun buy-ups without having an ordinance on the books authorizing such participation and that the City cannot destroy guns bought in such a program without first trying to sell them.

He told me that all the City was planning on doing was to have some officers at the event for security.

I told him that the gun-control group was most certainly planning on the City taking possession of all purchased firearms and that would mean the City would be participating in the buy-up. In turn, that would put Petersburg in violation of state law.

That struck a chord. Mr. Telfair is going to talk to the gun-control group to make sure they understand that the Petersburg PD is NOT going to take possession of any bought-up guns. The PD would only be providing security. (Any other locality whose PD accepts the guns for purposes of destruction would similarly be "participating" in the buy-up program and find themselves in violation of the law unless they had an ordinance in place allowing such a thing. The locality would still have to attempt to sell the guns before destroying them.)

I will be talking to Mr. Telfair on Thursday morning and will report back on what I learn.

There may be a dealer or two at the event offering better prices for the guns. Also, if any of you are looking to add to your collections, this might be a chance to get a nice gun at a really good price by making an offer to someone headed to the buy-up.

For now, let's see where this is going on Thursday.

 

[jegoodin]

Bingo. Not specifically required.

Understand that I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done..... but it is not specifically required as stated.

Grapeshot and I were having a theoretical conversation about the parameters under which a private gun buy back may or may not be legal. Grape asserted that a FFL might be required to ensure the legality. I basically was invoking the "gunshow loophole" asserting that as long as the two parties were reasonably sure they were both from VA since that is where the transaction was taking place then the transaction from that perspective would be legal.

So no, it isn't specifically required, but some action or knowledge to make the parties "reasonably sure" is, otherwise the transaction could be against the law.

I don't think the BATFE is going to accept "don't ask, don't tell" as a reasonable defense if you are wrong.

 

[Grapeshot]

Grapeshot and I were having a theoretical conversation about the parameters under which a private gun buy back may or may not be legal. Grape asserted that a FFL might be required to ensure the legality.--snipped-- .

Was not my intention to suggest that the services of a FFL would be required of an "individual" acting independently.

 

[jegoodin]

Was not my intention to suggest that the services of a FFL would be required of an "individual" acting independently.

Yeah, I get that. And I agree with what you said about if they were doing it as an organization and not as individuals.

 

[TFred]

I received a response from my earlier e-mail to the author of the story which indicates that he has been investigating the details of this quite extensively. He expects to publish a follow-up story soon.

However they manage to sort out the details (that is, whether or not they can manage to get their plans solidly into the "legal" column), one thing for sure, localities are on notice that no gun buy-backs will be happening without extreme scrutiny! And that is a good thing.

This whole incident just reinforces the somewhat commonly held perception that progressive liberals live in a world as they think it should be. Their whimsical view is that fewer guns "on the street" are better for society, so no questions asked, not a care in the world given to what may or may not be legal on the path to get there. And that is sad.

TFred

 

[builtjeep]

If anyone is familiar with these two places....I'd like to know the layout in relation to city property.

I know that the Crater road location has a public sidewalk in front of it, so there is a place to stand on public property in order to conduct your own transactions if that is what you are asking about. The church is just north of the Wawa and the post office. Also there is a BBQ place (King's) and a civil war park across the street. I've OC'd at King's without any problems, don't know how they'd feel about gun sales in their parking lot though.

 

[Grapeshot]

I know that the Crater road location has a public sidewalk in front of it, so there is a place to stand on public property in order to conduct your own transactions if that is what you are asking about. The church is just north of the Wawa and the post office. Also there is a BBQ place (King's) and a civil war park across the street. I've OC'd at King's without any problems, don't know how they'd feel about gun sales in their parking lot though.

Even w/o a "sidewalk", the first few feet (6?) from the curb line will almost assuredly be public right-of-way - people almost always forget that

 

[jegoodin]

Was not my intention to suggest that the services of a FFL would be required of an "individual" acting independently.

Oh and one reason I was advancing my gun show corollary (private transfers) of how this could work was to point out the irony that an anti- organization might have to do what they have been protesting and bemoaning in order to achieve their goal. The word "hypocrites" comes to mind...

 

[Grapeshot]

Oh and one reason I was advancing my gun show corollary (private transfers) of how this could work was to point out the irony that an anti- organization might have to do what they have been protesting and bemoaning in order to achieve there goal. The word "hypocrites" comes to mind...

There is a lot more going on regarding this that hasn't been fully vented yet.

We know that municipalities cannot be involved in "buy backs" w/o a specific ordinance in effect.

Petersburg has no such ordinance. The City Attorney says the city is not involved, yet the phone number for questions about this event is allegedly listed as the detective desk with the PPD.

Who will be taking possession of the guns? Will they be turned over to a municipal LEA or will the group add them to the "personal collection?

Would bet that someone will be videoing to identify people and that vehicle tag numbers will be recorded.

Would not be too surprised if this event were cancelled or rescheduled - think that the group has bitten off quite a mouthful.

 

[jegoodin]

There is a lot more going on regarding this that hasn't been fully vented yet.

We know that municipalities cannot be involved in "buy backs" w/o a specific ordinance in effect.

Petersburg has no such ordinance. The City Attorney says the city is not involved, yet the phone number for questions about this event is allegedly listed as the detective desk with the PPD.

Who will be taking possession of the guns? Will they be turned over to a municipal LEA or will the group add them to the "personal collection?

Would bet that someone will be videoing to identify people and that vehicle tag numbers will be recorded.

Would not be too surprised if this event were cancelled or rescheduled - think that the group has bitten off quite a mouthful.

All very interesting....

 

[builtjeep]

Looks like they've decided that this is a bad idea......

http://www.nbc12.com/story/23398550/petersburg-gun-buyback-postponed-after-legal-questions

 

[peter nap]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

..........

 

[blahpony]

Awww, I was hoping for footage of the group getting SWATted. :lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

Darn - there goes my supplimentary retirement account

 

[peter nap]

.......................

 

[Defrock]

"And it's an example of how difficult it is for not only citizens, but also lawmakers and localities, to keep up with the vast number of bills that are passed."

-lulz.

What a bunch of morans. Get a brian! :lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

"And it's an example of how difficult it is for not only citizens, but also lawmakers and localities, to keep up with the vast number of bills that are passed."--snip--

Wonder how that defense will work for me if I am charged with a "technicality"? :uhoh:

 

[Grapeshot]

.......................

Classic!! Viking haircut?

 

[peter nap]

Classic!! Viking haircut?

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the Cops, City Attorney and the Muttering Mummas...discussed the many calls they'd gotten, the discussion with Philip and the FOIA for all documentation from me.

Plus, as usual, I'm sure they peek in here once in a while.

Just can't get away with anything anymore:lol::lol:

 

[marshaul]

"And it's an example of how difficult it is for not only citizens, but also lawmakers and localities, to keep up with the vast number of bills that are passed. Exactly how are we supposed to get more laws passed? Frankly, only citizens should have to face this difficulty. Lawmakers and localities need to be unencumbered to increase the vast number of bills passed, so long as only the citizens need to worry about keeping up with them."

Go sit and spin.