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Red Flag Bill

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
You keep saying that, but it isn't true.




I'm sure gun owners in many of the other red flag states never thought they'd have unconstitutional gun confiscations either.

There is such a thing as being too calm in a crisis.
[/QUOTE

Both links are the same. August.
No bill has yet been proposed, only given lip service .

As I said I've already contacted my state reps. Ky isnt Indiana, Virginia, etc.

If such a bill is finally proposed it will fly like a lead balloon here.
 

Liberty4Ever

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
350
Location
Lexington, Kentucky, USA
It's bizarre that I post an article entitled, "Bipartisan Group of Kentucky Lawmakers Proposes 'Red Flag' Bill", the first sentence of the article is, "A bipartisan group of Kentucky lawmakers has proposed a bill that would allow police or family members to ask a court to temporarily take guns away from people....", and you reply, "No bill has yet been proposed, only given lip service ."

Perhaps you mean that the bill hasn't yet been filed this year. It will be. Hopefully it won't pass this year, but the interim committee met today to discuss this year's red flag bill. It's far beyond merely being proposed.

Do you want a red flag law? Because thinking a red flag law can't happen here is exactly how a red flag law happens here, and once it's passed it isn't going away. It's very rare for gun control laws to be reversed. Once government secures an infringement, it's for keeps.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,667
Location
here nc
It's bizarre that I post an article entitled, "Bipartisan Group of Kentucky Lawmakers Proposes 'Red Flag' Bill", the first sentence of the article is, "A bipartisan group of Kentucky lawmakers has proposed a bill that would allow police or family members to ask a court to temporarily take guns away from people....", and you reply, "No bill has yet been proposed, only given lip service ."

Perhaps you mean that the bill hasn't yet been filed this year. It will be. Hopefully it won't pass this year, but the interim committee met today to discuss this year's red flag bill. It's far beyond merely being proposed.

Do you want a red flag law? Because thinking a red flag law can't happen here is exactly how a red flag law happens here, and once it's passed it isn't going away. It's very rare for gun control laws to be reversed. Once government secures an infringement, it's for keeps.
first liberty4ever...your posted newspeek article today is dated Aug 19...while the one this august member posted today from the local newspeek is dated today 22 November 2019...

but the greatest mystery is...who is the 'YOU' you referenced and were chastising in your last post...and why?
 

MrOverlay

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
Been keeping tabs on this. It won't be filed until November.

Even though odds of the bill passing are miniscule, or Bevin signing it if it should slip thru even less, Kentuckians,should start hammering their respective reps that a vote for this is basically a resignation from office.

This bill if passed would not stand a court challenge as the KY legislature has no authority to regulate weapons at all ,other than concealed carry of deadly weapons. Period.
if that is true, how did we get all the additional gun laws that already exist. The Ky Supreme Court opened that door years ago.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
It's bizarre that I post an article entitled, "Bipartisan Group of Kentucky Lawmakers Proposes 'Red Flag' Bill", the first sentence of the article is, "A bipartisan group of Kentucky lawmakers has proposed a bill that would allow police or family members to ask a court to temporarily take guns away from people....", and you reply, "No bill has yet been proposed, only given lip service ."

Perhaps you mean that the bill hasn't yet been filed this year. It will be. Hopefully it won't pass this year, but the interim committee met today to discuss this year's red flag bill. It's far beyond merely being proposed.

Do you want a red flag law? Because thinking a red flag law can't happen here is exactly how a red flag law happens here, and once it's passed it isn't going away. It's very rare for gun control laws to be reversed. Once government secures an infringement, it's for keeps.
When a proposal isnt even finished yet it's not been proposed. When it's a bill , and filed then it's been proposed.
It may get filed. A similar one has a few times and was dead before the ink dried.
Not sure what else besides speak with my reps about a bill that isnt even a bill yet you'd like to see me do?
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
if that is true, how did we get all the additional gun laws that already exist. The Ky Supreme Court opened that door years ago.
That's easy. We got the few gun regs we have because the concealed carry permit scheme was pushed through in the 90s by an over eager handful of folks claiming to represent Ky gun owners. Which opened the door for the gun regulations that by design have no teeth , and apply to CC only as all but two I think are carefully worded to include concealed deadly weapon.

Had that handful of self proclaimed gun right champions NOT have did that we would have had permittlesss concealed carry by 2000. Without the regulations that came with ccdw. Even though most of those have no penalty attached.

The rest are federal.
 

MrOverlay

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
No. Nobody was trying to illegally confiscate firearms from kentuckians with cc
i believe the dam broke in a challenge regard felon I’m possession prohibition, I might be wrong on the actual charge.The challenge was that the law was unconstitutional under the Kentucky Constitution. SC ruled that it was not, despite the clear language in the Constitution. Said it was within the legislature‘s right to enact laws regulating firearms. It had nothing to do with CC and I believe it predates CC.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,667
Location
here nc
i believe,... snipppp
I might be wrong....snippp

snipp...

I believe....snipppp
mroverlay...i might be wrong but i believe a small point of order needs to be brought to your attention...

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
 

MrOverlay

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
186
Location
Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
mroverlay...i might be wrong but i believe a small point of order needs to be brought to your attention...

(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
if I could decipher the Supreme Court cases I would. I’ll continue to try.1574559412332.png
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
i believe the dam broke in a challenge regard felon I’m possession prohibition, I might be wrong on the actual charge.The challenge was that the law was unconstitutional under the Kentucky Constitution. SC ruled that it was not, despite the clear language in the Constitution. Said it was within the legislature‘s right to enact laws regulating firearms. It had nothing to do with CC and I believe it predates CC.
Case cite please.

Federal law prohibits felons from possessing guns.

Anyway , I've spoken to several state reps mine and a couple others.
Consensus is if such a bill is actually proposed, it's dead on arrival just as the last attempt at this foolishness was.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,667
Location
here nc
if I could decipher the Supreme Court cases I would. I’ll continue to try.

snippp'd mtoverlay's hallucination
best of luck i believe that...if ya can't decipher leave the hearsay nonsense outta the conversation...huh?,
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,255
Location
Kentucky
per the clear reading of the Constitution, every law other than regulating concealed carry.
The clear reading is that case did not question the authority of the general assembly to pass such a law. The point that it only has power granted it to regulate concealed carry was not brought up.

There is a reason there is no case law regarding OC in this state as OC cases are summarily dismissed.

That is also the reason practically every gun regulation in this state specifies concealed deadly weapon. The legislature does not want to be challenged in court over OC. It knows it cannot win based on that argument , kicking the props from under the case you cited.
 

Liberty4Ever

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
350
Location
Lexington, Kentucky, USA
The important point in any constitutional discussion is that the Kentucky legislature amends the Kentucky Constitution. Our Kentucky Constitution isn't some immutable set of divine commandments. The legislature ratified our Constitution. Section 1 clearly states that Kentuckians can bear arms for their defense or defense of the state, but the legislature gave themselves permission to regulate concealed carry, which was considered a behavior common to criminals at the time because honest men carried weapons openly. Now, it's considered polite (less antagonistic) to carry concealed. Concealed carry... not just for criminals anymore. :)

Section 1 of the Kentucky Constitution

However, even if the Kentucky legislature hadn't given themselves the ability to regulate concealed carry, they could amend the Kentucky Constitution to allow whatever laws they want to pass. It's more difficult to amend the Constitution than pass a new Kentucky state law, but our Constitution and our laws ultimately reflect the prevailing political will. There are also plenty of examples of governments passing and enforcing blatantly unconstitutional laws without bothering to amend the constitution. This is something that gun rights activists should readily understand. Most anti-gun laws are unconstitutional, because they had the political will to pass a law but not to eliminate the second amendment. They took what they could get, passed their unconstitutional laws and ignore the second amendment.

This is why it's important to educate people about firearms related facts and laws. Politicians implement a more pro-government version of the political sentiments of the voters. Sitting back and thinking that Kentucky is a pro-gun state so we don't need to worry about anti-gun laws allows the sentiment to be pushed in the anti-gun direction, and this is exactly how our entire nation is becoming more anti-gun over time.

If we wait for a red flag bill to have popular support in the legislature before we oppose it, we face an uphill battle. If we wait until that bill is passed and we have a red flag gun confiscation law on the books, the battle is nearly insurmountable.

Prior to the Parkland shooting, five states had red flag laws. Ten more states passed red flag laws in 2018, three more states added red flag laws so far in 2019, and red flag laws have been proposed or are pending in eight more states including Kentucky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_law#Proposed_or_pending_legislation
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,667
Location
here nc
The important point in any constitutional discussion is that the Kentucky legislature amends the Kentucky Constitution. Our Kentucky Constitution isn't some immutable set of divine commandments. The legislature ratified our Constitution. Section 1 clearly states that Kentuckians can bear arms for their defense or defense of the state, but the legislature gave themselves permission to regulate concealed carry, which was considered a behavior common to criminals at the time because honest men carried weapons openly. Now, it's considered polite (less antagonistic) to carry concealed. Concealed carry... not just for criminals anymore. :)

Section 1 of the Kentucky Constitution

snippppp;...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_law#Proposed_or_pending_legislation
liberty4ever, et al., there is a very good and valid reason educational institutions do not allow their students to use Wiki anything to be cited as an authoritative source ~ any tom, dick, or harry; from any country in the world; with or without biases or surreptitious or unscrupulous motives can put absolutely any nonsense as gospel on the pages ~ all done without any attribution of who/whom the author are or their affiliation, e.g., NRA/GOA/ or perhaps bloomburgs antis as misinformation?

in fact at the very end of the article you just cited on EPRO is this note in small print at the very bottom..

    • This page was last edited on 23 November 2019, at 19:25 (UTC).
Brings to bear the question ~ by whom, which section, what information was changed, is the edit information viable, was the edited material peer reviewed, ad nauseam...

ps: finally...who put this wiki material in place...ya know if i did that much research and spent this much time & energy i'd want credit...wouldn't you?
 
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