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The Insanity of Gun Control Fanatics

AWDstylez

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compmanio365 wrote:
What Alexcabbie is talking about and what you are talking about are two different things, and you know it.....nice try though. There's a difference between self dependence and "running to mommy" anytime someone hurts your feelings. Nobody here is saying don't go to the police when there is a real problem, but a kid talking about going shooting with his dad, or how much he likes he new .22 rifle, isn't a threat to anyone. Pull your head out of your posterior and look around the real world like the rest of us. Sure you don't live in California, New York, DC, one of them places? Your non-logic sure sounds familiar......



Why don't you goread my previous posts. He changed the topic from talking about shooting with dad to a "stop snitchin" approach to childhood problems.



Alexcabbie:
Bullies are nothing new, and in my day we didn't shoot them we gave en a good kick in the balls. Too bad more kids are not taught to speak to bullies in the only language they understand.



So violence is the solution to violence? I thought you were Christian? What happened to "turn the other cheek"?

Standing up to physical bullying only works if you're stronger than the bully, in which case you wouldn't be getting bullied in the first place. Then there's verbal abuse, which I would certainly hope you wouldn't advocate a violent response to (that's how school shootings happen). The only people that bullies need a kick in the balls from is their parents and the teachers. Those also happen to be the only people in the proper place to justify any ball kicking. Teaching young kids to not fight out every problem, but rather go to an adult,isn't teaching dependence, it's teaching the correct way to deal with issues in life. It's the adults that need to grow up now and learn to have some shades of gray between stuffed animal and real gun.
 

Carnivore

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Knowing how society is today, and what is socially acceptable in a school environment, and what is accepted inline with the school rules is what this kids parents should be aware of.. I feel the school should have settled the issue with the toy gun without all the flame and fanfare,but maybe their begging the state and feds. for more school security budget money, and seized the golden opportunity to make an example of the kid toy gun or not..

StyleZZZ:pthe reason I asked how many kids you've raised, is that kids will be kids doesn't discount the seriousness in the way some kids act up when their parents aren't around, I guess none of us know if the kid was attempting to strike fear into another student or teacher or not, in this day and time if a child of minetook anything resembling a firearm to school, he/she would be in for a serious talking to,

This is just my opinion folks, but if every little snotnosed kid was allowed to carry toy guns to school in this day and time, then the teachers and faculty would have nopreventative control through mere observationover the kid who did finally bring a real firearm to school

Bottom line is the kid broke a school rule, and I hold the parents responsible..
 

AWDstylez

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Carnivore wrote:
StyleZZZ:pthe reason I asked how many kids you've raised, is that kids will be kids doesn't discount the seriousness in the way some kids act up when their parents aren't around, I guess none of us know if the kid was attempting to strike fear into another student or teacher or not, in this day and time if a child of minetook anything resembling a firearm to school, he/she would be in for a serious talking to,


Sorry. Any time someone asks me a personalquestion I assume it'sto attempt to shoot me down. My apologies. :)
 

Deanimator

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AWDstylez wrote:
So violence is the solution to violence?
You're damned right it is. What's your solution to the Waffen SS, the Klan and Al Qaeda, a prayer vigil?

Since you're apparently opposed to responding to violence with violence, you either dont' believe in calling the police in response to violence, OR you don't believe they should use violence to end violence if called.
I thought you were Christian? What happened to "turn the other cheek"?

I don't know about him, but I'm NOT. It's amazing the truly evil things that people will try to get others to submit to using religion as an excuse; everything from slavery, to violence against women to genocide.

You can believe in your imaginary friend to your heart's content. Being an agnostic, I don't know if there's a hell or not, but anybody who thinks I'm going to let somebody harm me without VIOLENT resistance is cordially invited to at least TRY to visit the place. If he DOES get there, he'll probably run into the guy who tried to harm me, my relatives or friends.

Thanks for reminding me why I gave up religion for Lent.
 

Flintlock

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AWDstylez wrote:
But where do you draw the line? Bullying in a real problem and is typically the catalyst for school shootings. Kids nowadays don't need to stand up to the bullies, they just go down to the local hood, buy a gun illegally, and massacre everyone at the school.
School massacres are an extremely rare event whereas bullying and standing up "bullys" occurs everyday. Most of the shootings that do happen are conducted by the mentally ill.


You can talk about making kids tough all you want, but that doesn't justify bullying. Adults bullied as kids become jackass cops and Bush. The bullies need to be dealt with and "running to the authorities" is how it's done.
So when you have children, doyou plan to have them run away from their problems and have someone else figure it out for them? Teaching your kids to take care of themselves and go to others for help when they can't sounds like a better solution to me.


But, once again, we have the OC extremists
Would you be so kind as to define for us what an OC extremist is please?
 

marshaul

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I'm not convinced bullying has anything to do with school shootings. I spent some time recently reading about Columbine, and (forgetting the conspiracy theories) one thing that struck me was how many people there are who actually went to Columbine who claim that Klebold and Harris were anything but bullied. They might not have been "popular" in the cliche sense, but I'm not sure I believe the media story that they were bullied for being outcasts. Doesn't appear to be true.
 

Deanimator

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AWDstylez wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
AWDstylez wrote:
So violence is the solution to violence?
You're damned right it is. What's your solution to the Waffen SS, the Klan and Al Qaeda, a prayer vigil?


You're comparing playground skuffles to the Klan?

So then you're saying violence IS the solution to violence?

Try to make up your mind.
 

marshaul

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Carnivore wrote:
I feel the school should have settled the issue with the toy gun without all the flame and fanfare,but maybe... seized the golden opportunity to make an example of the kid toy gun or not...
Ugh. I absolutely hate this kind of thinking. Make an example out of him? For what? Not being the most foresightful cookie in the jar?

What a truly authoritarian way to approach justice! It is never just to "make an example" out of anyone, except perhaps child rapists. Punishment should fit the severity of the crime. Period. In this case, since there was no crime, there can be no just punishment. "Making an example" out of people is just another tool in the authoritarian grab-bag of force that includes "zero-tolerance".

I almost wish somebody would "make an example" out of you. :p
 

AWDstylez

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Deanimator wrote:
So then you're saying violence IS the solution to violence?

Try to make up your mind.



My world isn't black and whitelike yours. I can differentiate between ill-will amoungstchildren and Nazi genocide. That allows me to handle the two situations differently. You should try it some time.
 

marshaul

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"Violence" is meaningless from a philosophical perspective. Aggression is the relevant behavior here.

It is always just to match aggression with sufficient force to prevent any crossing of boundaries.

Now, as to how school children should defend themselves against bullies... This is one particular I'm going to have to opt out of discussing in-depth. I never met a bully (unless you count government :p), I never bullied, and I never was bulled. So I really don't even know what "bullying" is.
 

Deanimator

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AWDstylez wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
So then you're saying violence IS the solution to violence?

Try to make up your mind.



My world isn't black and whitelike yours. I can differentiate between ill-will amoungstchildren and Nazi genocide. That allows me to handle the two situations differently. You should try it some time.

So then what you're saying is that you're ridiculously overbroad insinuation was untenable? Must be why you've backpedaled.

Forcible rape is different from the Holocaust too. Does a woman have a right to resist a forcible rape with "violence"? Can she use deadly force?

This should be good...
 

marshaul

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Deanimator wrote:
Forcible rape is different from the Holocaust too.  Does a woman have a right to resist a forcible rape with "violence"?  Can she use deadly force?
A person may use whatever force necessary to prevent any "crossing of boundaries". In the case of rape, a woman is justified in using deadly force to stop or prevent a rape, because the "crossing of boundaries" entailed by rape and deadly force are of the same degree of severity.
 

AWDstylez

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marshaul wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
Forcible rape is different from the Holocaust too. Does a woman have a right to resist a forcible rape with "violence"? Can she use deadly force?
A person may use whatever force necessary to prevent any "crossing of boundaries". In the case of rape, a woman is justified in using deadly force to stop or prevent a rape, because the "crossing of boundaries" entailed by rape and deadly force are of the same degree of severity.




Exactly. He can't seem to understand that "aggression" (thanks for the correction) between kids on a playground is different and worlds less severe than aggression by the Klan.


On a side note, did you grow up in a bubble or were you homeschooled or something? Who has never been on one end or the other of bullying?
 

marshaul

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No, I went to one of the biggest high schools in the state of Virginia. There just weren't any bullies. Or I'm not the type of person to be bullied, or even see bullying. Or something. I certainly wasn't doing the bullying either; I'm about as nonaggressive a person as you'll ever meet.

I've always wondered about that. Bullying is pretty universal in our (as a society) shared view of the school experience. Maybe my school was just well-run. But I never saw anything that I would qualify as "bullying". I saw kids giving each other a hard time, sure, but it was always a two-way street.
 

Deanimator

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AWDstylez wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
Forcible rape is different from the Holocaust too. Does a woman have a right to resist a forcible rape with "violence"? Can she use deadly force?
A person may use whatever force necessary to prevent any "crossing of boundaries". In the case of rape, a woman is justified in using deadly force to stop or prevent a rape, because the "crossing of boundaries" entailed by rape and deadly force are of the same degree of severity.




Exactly. He can't seem to understand that "aggression" (thanks for the correction) between kids on a playground is different and worlds less severe than aggression by the Klan.


On a side note, did you grow up in a bubble or were you homeschooled or something? Who has never been on one end or the other of bullying?

What you can't seem to understand is that you didn't limit your definition of "violence" until you were called on it. You've been backpedaling ever since.

I went to Catholic grammar and highschool in Chicago. I learned VERY quickly that if you don't protect yourself, you don't get protected, PERIOD.

I recently saw an example of your preferred type of society. Rod Taylor was really good in "The Time Machine", wasn't he?
 

AWDstylez

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Deanimator wrote:
What you can't seem to understand is that you didn't limit your definition of "violence" until you were called on it. You've been backpedaling ever since.


Semantics. Violence or aggression, my point remains the same. Playground "violence" and Nazi "violence" aren't even in the same universe, let alone the same ballpark. Using deadly force against the possibility of certain death is just common sense.Using ANY force againstsome fellow 8 year old making fun of you is the wrong way to handle the situation. Childrenlack the maturity to make sound judgment calls as to when counter-violence is or isn't justified and what level is appropriate. Advocating that they attempt to do so is simply idiotic. When a child has a problem they need to take it to an adult. It isn't the child's fault, and it isn'tthe fault of the idea of taking things to an adult, that the adults in this case (and many others) react like a bunch of retards. Baby,tub, bathroom, house and neighborhood outwith the bathwater. Learn it, love it. It's the OC extremist way.
 

impulse

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Don't take this out of context.

I never bullied but have had people try to push me around. I learned how to stop it, and go about my life. So basically when kids get into the real world, and start getting "bullied" in the workforce, what are they going to do?
 

Carnivore

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marshaul wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
I feel the school should have settled the issue with the toy gun without all the flame and fanfare,but maybe... seized the golden opportunity to make an example of the kid toy gun or not...
Ugh. I absolutely hate this kind of thinking. Make an example out of him? For what? Not being the most foresightful cookie in the jar?

What a truly authoritarian way to approach justice! It is never just to "make an example" out of anyone, except perhaps child rapists. Punishment should fit the severity of the crime. Period. In this case, since there was no crime, there can be no just punishment. "Making an example" out of people is just another tool in the authoritarian grab-bag of force that includes "zero-tolerance".

I almost wish somebody would "make an example" out of you. :p

Trust me Marshaul, I've been made an example of plenty of times in my life, and wrongfully so I might add !! I am a stronger and less tollerant man because of it..

I never meet a stranger, I'll always treat others as I would have them treat me..

Ialways walk past a stranger on the sidewalk and greet them with kind words.

I never fail to hold the door for someone entering or exiting a building ahead or behind me..

I always say pardon me or excuse me , Please and thank you..

But I have ZERO tollerance for STUPID.. maybe the kid was ignorant, but his Parents are STUPID, so the kid was made an example out of because of his STUPID parents.. I guarantee the kid will survive this incident unscathed, But he'll be more likely to think things through a little more thoroughly as life teaches him more of these unfair examples.
 
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