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This is why you should CC and not OC

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Aknazer

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SNIP

At the request of several members, James Yeager and Rob Pincus will be invited to participate (though one has to consider whether there may be an intentional bias towards OC draw time).
There's already a video out there that Rob did where he measured his ability to draw and fire from both CC and OC positions. Even with him being fully prepared for the buzzer it was faster in the OC position. Though of course from there he tries to downplay this fact and not take into account any real life situations (such as shopping and having something in a hand, or holding onto a child, etc). So if he were to suddenly draw slower from an OC position it would immediately call into question the results.
 

g21sfpistol

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Yes, the idea is to have every subject (in the scientific sense:)) draw from both OC and CC under each given condition in order to have comparable results. The idea is to quantify the time elapsed between
(1) "attack" and controlled fire
(2) "attack" and unholstered weapon pointed towards general area of target
(3) "attack" and unholstered weapon clear of holster


The "levels of expertise" are along the lines of:

Military (recent service)
Military (5-10 years since service)
Military (10+ years since service)
LEO (active)
LEO (recent retiree)
LEO (5+ years since retirement)

Range master (professional competitors, instructors, and Yeagers:p)

Armed LAC (OC heavily preferred, 20+ range hours/month)
Armed LAC (OC heavily preferred, 10-20 range hours/month)
Armed LAC (OC heavily preferred, less than 10 range hours/month)

Armed LAC (CC heavily preferred, 20+ range hours/month)
Armed LAC (CC heavily preferred, 10-20 range hours/month)
Armed LAC (CC heavily preferred, less than 10 range hours/month)

Semi-newbie (has handled handguns before) [unbiased; control group]
Complete newbie (receives on-site instruction) [unbiased; control group]

But I hadn't thought of having gradations based by years of carrying/experience. So far, the one requirement for the armed LACs was that the method of carry had been exercised regularly for AT LEAST the past two years (lowered it from five, originally).
I like the idea of having the years be recorded though. Thanks for the suggestion!:)

The issue with range time is what if you have some who shoots in a static position all the time compared to some who actually trains seriously and and draws from the ground or from a seated position? You can have 50 years of standing there and drawing all you like. Some one with a year of practicing their draw from many positions is gonna smoke that guy who constantly trains in a static position
 

g21sfpistol

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There's already a video out there that Rob did where he measured his ability to draw and fire from both CC and OC positions. Even with him being fully prepared for the buzzer it was faster in the OC position. Though of course from there he tries to downplay this fact and not take into account any real life situations (such as shopping and having something in a hand, or holding onto a child, etc). So if he were to suddenly draw slower from an OC position it would immediately call into question the results.
Iv seen that video. I don't think he draws to the best of his ability OC or CC.
 

g21sfpistol

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No disrespect intended - you can Unsubscribe to the thread and neither read it nor post to it.

I don't care whether one OCs, CCs, or noCs. What is important is that they do no harm to those that choose to support the RKBA.

Some that will argue against one method of carry over another are trolls, provocateurs, antis or just poorly informed users/posters.

We have an obligation (we welcome all) to at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Having done that we don't leave bad information unattended. There are fence sitters to consider. We provide the facts/truth for them also.

The thread will remain open, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
So because I argue my point of view I'm automatically a troll? Let that be a reminder to the people who are on the fence.
 

Aknazer

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So because I argue my point of view I'm automatically a troll? Let that be a reminder to the people who are on the fence.
Because you argue it? No. How you argue it? Yes. From your very first post you come off as being hostile/aggressive/inflammatory. That is standard trolling 101 where one's intent is to get a rise out of those that they are trolling. Now you might not be trolling and that could just be you, but it is trolling tactics none the less.
 

Gallowmere

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Iv seen that video. I don't think he draws to the best of his ability OC or CC.
This is very likely true, but the same could be said for a large portion of the carrying population. When I have discussed practicing draws with people (both who carry and do not), I often get strange looks, or comments about "not training to be a professional gunfighter". It seems strange to me that people would spend a good amount of time practicing shooting, then all but ignore something that is required before you can shoot to begin with...well, if you like your leg anyway.

So because I argue my point of view I'm automatically a troll? Let that be a reminder to the people who are on the fence.
No, you were viewed as a troll for two reasons. One: the way you chose to frame your argument. Two: your selection of place to form said argument. The website name is a pretty strong giveaway as to the thoughts on the subject that most here will possess. While not as severe, number two is almost the equivalent of going to an NRA forum, and trying to espouse the merits of gun control.
 
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g21sfpistol

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Because you argue it? No. How you argue it? Yes. From your very first post you come off as being hostile/aggressive/inflammatory. That is standard trolling 101 where one's intent is to get a rise out of those that they are trolling. Now you might not be trolling and that could just be you, but it is trolling tactics none the less.
That is incorrect sir. I don't know how i came off hostile or how you can tell that. This is the Internet where you can't read the ton of voice. If I'm hostile, would kknow it by words I probably can't use here. Ah the troll defense when you can't join the conversation like an adult
 

g21sfpistol

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This is very likely true, but the same could be said for a large portion of the carrying population. When I have discussed practicing draws with people (both who carry and do not), I often get strange looks, or comments about "not training to be a professional gunfighter". It seems strange to me that people would spend a good amount of time practicing shooting, then all but ignore something that is required before you can shoot to begin with...well, if you like your leg anyway.



No, you were viewed as a troll for two reasons. One: the way you chose to frame your argument. Two: your selection of place to form said argument. The website name is a pretty strong giveaway as to the thoughts on the subject that most here will possess. While not as severe, number two is almost the equivalent of going to an NRA forum, and trying to espouse the merits of gun control.

I would agree with the large population part. I see that A LOT.
 

BB62

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This thread raises a very interesting issue that has never been raised before here on OCDO. I'm learning quite A LOT. :rolleyes:
Oh, me too! :rolleyes:

The one thing I haven't learned yet is why the troll decided to come here in the first place - to save us from ourselves whilst failing to use logic, properly formed sentences or anything more than casual punctuation/capitalization?

P.S. - the other thing I haven't learned is why so many have decided to attempt to "inform" one who clearly has no desire to be informed.
 

Maverick9

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Cops sometimes get attacked because they are in a position of authority, not because they have a visible weapon.
I've thoroughly debunked the 'myth of the open carry hazard' on here before.

In order for a thug to 'crack you on the back of the head' you have to have about 6 or 7, or more elements present. The chances of that all happening are vanishingly small.

They have to have clear motive - most avoid danger and seek the vulnerable
They have to see you are carrying - this is hard to do unless you're ostentatious about it
They have to be near enough to see you (while you are moving about)
They have to be near enough to contact you in a moving target situation
They have to be relatively unobserved
They have to be adept at physicality
They have to catch you at a non-alert moment.
They have to appear as a target (such as with LE)

All an OC-er has to do is take reasonable caution and stay out of stupid places. In addition if there are just two OC-ers together the chances of the above approach zero as they cover each other, two pairs of eyes.

HTH
 
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Grapeshot

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Originally Posted by dakatak87

How long will this "insane" debate of a thread continue? I have personally seen threads with a more credible subject become locked. Arguing with the internet as a whole on your opinion is futile. OP's choice is to CC. I choose to OC. To each their own.

I do believe there are people out there that because of their personalities and characteristics should choose not to carry a gun at all. This is said with no one person in mind. Who are we to say who can and can't carry or how.

Why we carry is the question we all need to ask ourselves every time we carry.

I came to this forum for carry support in general. Let us all be the adults we are and quit bickering over opinions.
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

No disrespect intended - you can Unsubscribe to the thread and neither read it nor post to it.

I don't care whether one OCs, CCs, or noCs. What is important is that they do no harm to those that choose to support the RKBA.

Some that will argue against one method of carry over another are trolls, provocateurs, antis or just poorly informed users/posters.

We have an obligation (we welcome all) to at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Having done that we don't leave bad information unattended. There are fence sitters to consider. We provide the facts/truth for them also.

The thread will remain open, unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
So because I argue my point of view I'm automatically a troll? Let that be a reminder to the people who are on the fence.
No, sir, it does not.

However, it does make you rude and in violation of the rules as I was quite obviously not replying to you and you distort the meaning thereof.
http://(16) NO FALSE ATTRIBUTIONS: Editing quoted posts by another member to make it appear as if they said something other than what they intended will NOT be tolerated!

Ignore the spirit/intention of this forum and the Forum Rules at your peril. Notice sent by PM.

Locked and relocked.
 
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