University of Louisville Chapter

[poetdante]

Pray that my mistakes dont cost me my future with getting me in trouble with school policies haha.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Pray that my mistakes dont cost me my future with getting me in trouble with school policies haha.

Any headway on the SCCC U of L constitution et al.?
Glad to hear you had such a positive reception, and I hope you're able to find an advisor soon.

I know from experience that finding a faculty advisor is (in my opinion, at least) the most difficult part of getting a club/group recognized; seems that even when you exhaust every available lead, you just can't seem to find a tenured professor, as all other positions would be at risk of unemployment for such controversial support for (the only?) reasonable means of self defense.

 

[poetdante]

Any headway on the SCCC U of L constitution et al.?
Glad to hear you had such a positive reception, and I hope you're able to find an advisor soon.

I know from experience that finding a faculty advisor is (in my opinion, at least) the most difficult part of getting a club/group recognized; seems that even when you exhaust every available lead, you just can't seem to find a tenured professor, as all other positions would be at risk of unemployment for such controversial support for (the only?) reasonable means of self defense.

First draft made up. Used a sample Constitution as well as the guidelines the University posted.
Getting an advisor will be tough. I'd prefer a tenured professor but oddly enough with special consideration a doctoral candidate like me can suffice! I'd rather have a stout professor so as to add credibility to our group. Should I make fliers and post the ad for a professor needed for the group? I only know of 1 tenured professor that hunts and he isn't particularly fond of me.

I plan on hitting up the ROTC batch of buildings and recruit the will-be officers. They might point me in a direction of a amicable volunteer.

I plan on sending out 83 emails, individually to all those that signed up. Finding a balance of fun and productivity will be a challenge since I'm not what you would call "socially oriented".

Which reminds me! I need to start spreading the word around the medschool campus and try to sign up some nursing, med, dental, public health, and research students! Sad thing is, none of my classmate seem interested so far.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

First draft made up. Used a sample Constitution as well as the guidelines the University posted.
Getting an advisor will be tough. I'd prefer a tenured professor but oddly enough with special consideration a doctoral candidate like me can suffice! I'd rather have a stout professor so as to add credibility to our group. Should I make fliers and post the ad for a professor needed for the group? I only know of 1 tenured professor that hunts and he isn't particularly fond of me.

I plan on hitting up the ROTC batch of buildings and recruit the will-be officers. They might point me in a direction of a amicable volunteer.

I plan on sending out 83 emails, individually to all those that signed up. Finding a balance of fun and productivity will be a challenge since I'm not what you would call "socially oriented".

Which reminds me! I need to start spreading the word around the medschool campus and try to sign up some nursing, med, dental, public health, and research students! Sad thing is, none of my classmate seem interested so far.

Looks like you've got your to-do list cut out for you.

If you are able to be the advisor without being an employee paid by the university (as is the case down here at the University of Arizona), I suppose you could go that route. Just remember the inherent risk to your status/grades that comes along with it. Continue only if you are willing to accept them. Not discouraging you, only reminding you.

I'd advise against posting flyers for an advisor; it could be twisted and make any potential advisor shy away from the prospect of bad press. "Personalized" pre-made emails might be a more subtle approach? Then again, I'm speaking from the experience of trying to conduct operations "behind enemy lines" here in Arizona (Tucson, the bastion of liberty and equality... for those who share the same view as the statists:banghead.

Hope the ROTC folks can help, never hurts to ask and you may get some interest there.
Best of luck!

 

[poetdante]

Looks like you've got your to-do list cut out for you.

If you are able to be the advisor without being an employee paid by the university (as is the case down here at the University of Arizona), I suppose you could go that route. Just remember the inherent risk to your status/grades that comes along with it. Continue only if you are willing to accept them. Not discouraging you, only reminding you.

I'd advise against posting flyers for an advisor; it could be twisted and make any potential advisor shy away from the prospect of bad press. "Personalized" pre-made emails might be a more subtle approach? Then again, I'm speaking from the experience of trying to conduct operations "behind enemy lines" here in Arizona (Tucson, the bastion of liberty and equality... for those who share the same view as the statists:banghead.

Hope the ROTC folks can help, never hurts to ask and you may get some interest there.
Best of luck!

As a graduate student I am paid by the university, so no go there. I really want to get a professor involved. Thanks for the advice on emails. I'll start by making a list of tenured profs and ask around who is "hunting friendly". One of my bio professors that I waylaid during sign-ups was partially open to the idea, he was one of the kind of folks that lives out in the country and thinks that's the only place guns are needed. I ALMOST got him to see my side but he had to leave before I could drive the message home.

Please elaborate on "behind enemy lines". I'm pretty much standing in the cross-hairs of the university once I submit this proposal. While my NRA and LI reps told me that if I start getting harassed I need to contact them so I can start the grievance/suit process but I'm not partial to those kinds of things. I'm more of a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy, to a point.

The biggest plus to my position is being a PhD student at the medical school. Being a doctoral student the professors will hopefully take me more seriously than a freshman fresh out of high school. Being a school of medicine student the undergrads will hopefully see me as a line of communication and advice into the programs there.

Being Russian, well here's hoping that just makes me awesome from the getgo!

 

[The Truth]

Bravo, sir! Very nice work so far. I'm looking forward to seeing your continued success.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

As a graduate student I am paid by the university, so no go there. I really want to get a professor involved. Thanks for the advice on emails. I'll start by making a list of tenured profs and ask around who is "hunting friendly". One of my bio professors that I waylaid during sign-ups was partially open to the idea, he was one of the kind of folks that lives out in the country and thinks that's the only place guns are needed. I ALMOST got him to see my side but he had to leave before I could drive the message home.

Hopefully you're able to speak to him again and have him see the light, so to speak.

Please elaborate on "behind enemy lines". I'm pretty much standing in the cross-hairs of the university once I submit this proposal. While my NRA and LI reps told me that if I start getting harassed I need to contact them so I can start the grievance/suit process but I'm not partial to those kinds of things. I'm more of a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy, to a point.

It looks like you have support there, just don't forget that the ACLU mobilizes from time to time to defend the Freedom of expression/speech, even if they have a disdain for the RKBA.

Let me elaborate. Reading posts on this and other forums and speaking with students from other states, I get the sense that people believe the fight is almost won here in AZ. I've had one professor say that I must feel completely at home OCing here since "Arizona is such a gun-friendly state". She couldn't believe there were "unfriendly" places in AZ (like entire cities) that constantly violated state preemption by enacting stricter laws or trying to bar lawful carry in public parks (just for starters). The way she saw it, I was just one of the untold many "gun crazy" guys in Tucson; I've yet to see one other OCer, much less a "gun crazy" guy around Tucson.

The Phoenix area, the Prescott area, and even the Show Low area I can attest to being fairly calm about OC and seem to have a number of CCers and OCers (in that order) on forums. But the "Big Three" universities attract budding leftists who hide behind the guise of "liberalism" to force their opinions on others; they don't like smoking, so they ban all smoking on campus. They don't like guns, so they ban all lawful carry on campus. They support the Freedom of Expression, but you'd better not mention guns because that is "hateful".

Flagstaff (home to Northern Arizona University) may be fairly open to carry because it has kind of an "outdoorsy" vibe, Tempe (home of Arizona State University) is right next to Phoenix (fairly good about carry), but Tucson is home to the leftist Mecca that is the University of Arizona without the reprieve of a visible carry culture. I love the view, I love the terrain, and I've decided this city is worth fighting for, hence my decision to work towards advancing OC "behind enemy lines".

The biggest plus to my position is being a PhD student at the medical school. Being a doctoral student the professors will hopefully take me more seriously than a freshman fresh out of high school. Being a school of medicine student the undergrads will hopefully see me as a line of communication and advice into the programs there.

Being Russian, well here's hoping that just makes me awesome from the getgo!

Somehow I glosses over the fact that you are a doctoral student; I'm still an undergraduate. It seems to me that you'll be able to leverage your status, and you should expect a few cool points for being Russian.

Sorry for the long post./rant

 

[poetdante]

Hopefully you're able to speak to him again and have him see the light, so to speak.

It looks like you have support there, just don't forget that the ACLU mobilizes from time to time to defend the Freedom of expression/speech, even if they have a disdain for the RKBA.

Let me elaborate. Reading posts on this and other forums and speaking with students from other states, I get the sense that people believe the fight is almost won here in AZ. I've had one professor say that I must feel completely at home OCing here since "Arizona is such a gun-friendly state". She couldn't believe there were "unfriendly" places in AZ (like entire cities) that constantly violated state preemption by enacting stricter laws or trying to bar lawful carry in public parks (just for starters). The way she saw it, I was just one of the untold many "gun crazy" guys in Tucson; I've yet to see one other OCer, much less a "gun crazy" guy around Tucson.

The Phoenix area, the Prescott area, and even toplateful".

Flagstaff (home to Northern Arizona University) may be fairly open to carry because it has kind of an "outdoorsy" vibe, Tempe (home of Arizona State University) is right next to Phoenix (fairly good about carry), but Tucson is home to the leftist Mecca that is the University of Arizona without the reprieve of a visible carry culture. I love the view, I love the terrain, and I've decided this city is worth fighting for, hence my decision to work towards advancing OC "behind enemy lines".


Somehow I glosses over the fact that you are a doctoral student; I'm still an undergraduate. It seems to me that you'll be able to leverage your status, and you should expect a few cool points for being Russian.

Sorry for the long post./rant

Great response. I had always thought AZ was rather anti-OC and anti-gun given the border trouble. Glad to hear many places are pro-gun. I OC everywhere I go except school. Does that mean I will be targeted by students I know and being called out on it? Sure. Does it mean word will probably get around I OC and be suspected of CC on campus and being harassed by security? Probably. Am I going to be popular for my stance without first being a victim of violence? Definitely. Few people had problems with the dental school employee shooting back and getting shot while a thug hunting students all of July tried to rob him in broad daylight. It made many think "good for him!" but the professors, living a life of luxury and sheltered bliss, did not see a reason why he was carrying in the first place. They saw no reason anyone should carry. Nobody should carry except if you're out in the woods or in the country, a 13min response time by metro police is acceptable. Sigh, #rant.

It's funny you mention banning smoking. They banned that here, students, faculty, staff still do it, under the No Smoking signs.

What my biggest pet peeve of the law is double standards. Businesses can prohibit carrying of firearms based on their view on the subject but a business owner can't prohibit certain groups from shopping at their store. Sure, no-gun signs carry no weight of law for businesses and schools and you have to leave if you're asked to, but God forbid you put a "No ABC group of people" on your store front, then you get legal actions and maybe even a burned down store. Prohibiting carry is discrimination of freedom of speech, freedom of life, and freedom of the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Great response. I had always thought AZ was rather anti-OC and anti-gun given the border trouble. Glad to hear many places are pro-gun. I OC everywhere I go except school. Does that mean I will be targeted by students I know and being called out on it? Sure. Does it mean word will probably get around I OC and be suspected of CC on campus and being harassed by security? Probably. Am I going to be popular for my stance without first being a victim of violence? Definitely.

Same here. Unfortunately, I spend most of my week on campus (research to finish my thesis) being my last year and all. When I finally "came out" as an OCer last year, I definitely caught some grief from classmates and two or three professors; at least no harm came to me in the form of grades. Some were surprised that I owned firearms, let alone carried one, but at least heard my reasons for doing so and accepted that I was within my Right to do so. Some were surprised that THEY weren't surprised that I carried. Then there were those who thought it was unnatural/wrong for me to carry and thought I should stop carrying because I was helping further "gun violence."
If I had to sum this lengthy paragraph into one sentence:
"Coming out" as an OCer will allow you to see who your real friends/family are. Just be prepared to lose one or two people who won't accept you for it.

Few people had problems with the dental school employee shooting back and getting shot while a thug hunting students all of July tried to rob him in broad daylight. It made many think "good for him!" but the professors, living a life of luxury and sheltered bliss, did not see a reason why he was carrying in the first place. They saw no reason anyone should carry. Nobody should carry except if you're out in the woods or in the country, a 13min response time by metro police is acceptable. Sigh, #rant.

Exactly. It's easy to be an armchair commando, but how many can speak from the experiences of those they talk down to? Be it professors, Hollywood hypocrites or politicians, there is no danger to them if the masses are deprived of their means of self defense. If I may, I'd like to post one of my favorite quotes that reminds me of this reality:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly....So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” - Theodore Roosevelt (former U.S. president)

It's funny you mention banning smoking. They banned that here, students, faculty, staff still do it, under the No Smoking signs.

What my biggest pet peeve of the law is double standards. Businesses can prohibit carrying of firearms based on their view on the subject but a business owner can't prohibit certain groups from shopping at their store. Sure, no-gun signs carry no weight of law for businesses and schools and you have to leave if you're asked to, but God forbid you put a "No ABC group of people" on your store front, then you get legal actions and maybe even a burned down store. Prohibiting carry is discrimination of freedom of speech, freedom of life, and freedom of the pursuit of happiness.

I know what you mean, as I too support the Right of individuals to not be forced into contract against their will; not a very popular opinion here in Tucson, but I did manage to convince three gay individuals that forcing a business to cater to homosexuals would be just as wrong as forcing any group into contract against their will. They realized the principle was wrong, even if the effect seemed to advance "liberty".

 

[poetdante]

Same here. Unfortunately, I spend most of my week on campus (research to finish my thesis) being my last year and all. When I finally "came out" as an OCer last year, I definitely caught some grief from classmates and two or three professors; at least no harm came to me in the form of grades. Some were surprised that I owned firearms, let alone carried one, but at least heard my reasons for doing so and accepted that I was within my Right to do so. Some were surprised that THEY weren't surprised that I carried. Then there were those who thought it was unnatural/wrong for me to carry and thought I should stop carrying because I was helping further "gun violence."
If I had to sum this lengthy paragraph into one sentence:
"Coming out" as an OCer will allow you to see who your real friends/family are. Just be prepared to lose one or two people who won't accept you for it.



Exactly. It's easy to be an armchair commando, but how many can speak from the experiences of those they talk down to? Be it professors, Hollywood hypocrites or politicians, there is no danger to them if the masses are deprived of their means of self defense. If I may, I'd like to post one of my favorite quotes that reminds me of this reality:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly....So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” - Theodore Roosevelt (former U.S. president)



I know what you mean, as I too support the Right of individuals to not be forced into contract against their will; not a very popular opinion here in Tucson, but I did manage to convince three gay individuals that forcing a business to cater to homosexuals would be just as wrong as forcing any group into contract against their will. They realized the principle was wrong, even if the effect seemed to advance "liberty".

Yah, I've lost just about all my friends here when it became known that I carried. I had a friend that was somewhat friendly towards guns (saw a picture of her husband shooting) and when she told everyone immediately decried that she liked guns and thought they were wrong.

Everyone I've talked to is anti-gun here. ONE student seems to be accepted for being a "sharpshooter" that competes with rifles long-distance, and he is a very charismatic young man who also doesn't like carrying. Everyone else, well the best i've had is "guns are ok but nobody should be allowed to have AR-15's or carry pistols". It's an uphill battle. Oddly, I don't ever get discouraged nor get tired of fighting the good fight. If not me, then who? If not now, then when? I'm happy to Captain the cause here. Grades can't be affected too much, but grad school is tough and once my thesis committee hears I have taken on this endeavour they will criticize my work even more and will think it's shotty because I'm affording time for other activities. Oh well, at least I have friends here

First batch of emails (83 personal emails to 83 signatures) going out tomorrow afternoon. First meeting Thursday afternoon (thinking of making cookies). If even 10 people show up I'll be glad. Constitution rough draft made and under review. To think, all this started last Saturday and in 8 days we're already near ready for an official submission to be an RSO (as soon as we get faculty adviser). thanks!

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Yah, I've lost just about all my friends here when it became known that I carried. I had a friend that was somewhat friendly towards guns (saw a picture of her husband shooting) and when she told everyone immediately decried that she liked guns and thought they were wrong.

Everyone I've talked to is anti-gun here. ONE student seems to be accepted for being a "sharpshooter" that competes with rifles long-distance, and he is a very charismatic young man who also doesn't like carrying. Everyone else, well the best i've had is "guns are ok but nobody should be allowed to have AR-15's or carry pistols". It's an uphill battle. Oddly, I don't ever get discouraged nor get tired of fighting the good fight. If not me, then who? If not now, then when? I'm happy to Captain the cause here. Grades can't be affected too much, but grad school is tough and once my thesis committee hears I have taken on this endeavour they will criticize my work even more and will think it's shotty because I'm affording time for other activities. Oh well, at least I have friends here

I see what you did there.
Hearing your situation, I now realize I'm lucky to know of several students who at least own guns (mostly shotguns or ARs), though I do not know of an current students who carry on a semi-regular basis; a student who graduated two years ago CCed, but he also struck me as a CC-only type, and one retired army guy I know MIGHT CC, but I'm not sure. Your commitment is admirable, and I hope your thesis committee isn't entirely composed of Ivory Tower professors and researchers so that you may have at least one ally of Freedom to curb the onslaught they may attempt.

You're correct about who it is who should fight. The burden cannot be entrusted to someone else whose commitment you do not know, whose reasons are not clear, and whose goals are unstated. If their goal is the same as yours, it is reasonable to believe your paths will intersect as you push towards having the Right to self defense be recognized by the next public authority who seeks to deny it.

First batch of emails (83 personal emails to 83 signatures) going out tomorrow afternoon. First meeting Thursday afternoon (thinking of making cookies). If even 10 people show up I'll be glad. Constitution rough draft made and under review. To think, all this started last Saturday and in 8 days we're already near ready for an official submission to be an RSO (as soon as we get faculty adviser). thanks!

Great idea on the cookies: inexpensive, widely-popular, and they serve as an incentive to hungry undergraduates (who turns down "free" food?).

You've made great progress in this short timeframe. Anxious to hear about how the advisor search and the meeting go.

 

[poetdante]

Russian saying: the only thing free is cheese in a mousetrap xD

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped-- Prohibiting carry is discrimination of freedom of speech, freedom of life, and freedom of the pursuit of happiness.

No sir, they are not.

The restrictions are on the states, not on the people.

 

[BB62]

...I'm pretty much standing in the cross-hairs of the university once I submit this proposal. While my NRA and LI reps told me that if I start getting harassed I need to contact them so I can start the grievance/suit process but I'm not partial to those kinds of things. I'm more of a "turn the other cheek" kind of guy, to a point...

If you've made the decision to be an activist, you'd better get over your aversion to giving as good as you're getting - quickly.

Of course you have to be smart and be a diplomat at all times - but if you make yourself a rug, people can and will step on you.

I'm certainly not saying you ought to get a big head, or walk around like a bad @$$, but you need to learn, and you need to be careful, but when someone tries to use their authority to unjustly squelch you, you need to train your guns on them (figuratively of course

). A reputation of one who is fair but firm, and unwilling to be brushed off or stepped on will help you in your endeavors.

In my case, I pounded on Clear Channel/WEBN/the City of Cincinnati Police and Law Departments for two work weeks about an illegal "no weapons" prohibition. A TV interview broke the log jam on that one when the city solicitor had to admit the city was powerless to stop my Open Carry Get-Together. Fast forward to Oktoberfest, same weapons prohibition: my e-mail got a response back from the VP of the Chamber of Commerce the next day.

By definition, an activist challenges the status quo. You've made some impressive first steps. Keep it up.

 

[color of law]

No sir, they are not.

The restrictions are on the states, not on the people.

Your wrong. The state is the people.

Ohio Constitution:

Preamble
We, the people of the State of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and promote our common welfare, do establish this Constitution.

Inalienable rights.
§1 All men are, by nature, free and independent, and have certain inalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and seeking and obtaining happiness and safety.

 

[poetdante]

If you've made the decision to be an activist, you'd better get over your aversion to giving as good as you're getting - quickly.

Of course you have to be smart and be a diplomat at all times - but if you make yourself a rug, people can and will step on you.

I'm certainly not saying you ought to get a big head, or walk around like a bad @$$, but you need to learn, and you need to be careful, but when someone tries to use their authority to unjustly squelch you, you need to train your guns on them (figuratively of course

). A reputation of one who is fair but firm, and unwilling to be brushed off or stepped on will help you in your endeavors.

In my case, I pounded on Clear Channel/WEBN/the City of Cincinnati Police and Law Departments for two work weeks about an illegal "no weapons" prohibition. A TV interview broke the log jam on that one when the city solicitor had to admit the city was powerless to stop my Open Carry Get-Together. Fast forward to Oktoberfest, same weapons prohibition: my e-mail got a response back from the VP of the Chamber of Commerce the next day.

By definition, an activist challenges the status quo. You've made some impressive first steps. Keep it up.

You're right. Care to give me a crash course? I would find the courage to stand up against unjust treatment if I knew what I had in my arsenal. I feel like people don't stand up to the wrongs in their government because they often don't know how (they stopped teaching civics here and I have yet to meet a student who knew how to get an official out of office). So, besides the state law, what do I have to work with? How would I go about things and make sure I'm not randomly patted down by security (this is an unlikely thing) or know what to do when I think my rights are being violated (handing out constitutions and being told to leave while on school property). Well, what to do besides talk to my NRA-ILA and LI reps, who have been outstanding. I would like to know, with some degree of confidence, that what I am doing is allowed or a the very least not going to get me arrested. Once I have my PhD i won't worry about these kinds of things so much but while being a student I need all the backing of laws that I can get. Of course, I always keep my binder of KY laws on guns handy

One thing I am NOT willing to do is be brushed aside. This is important. This is an issue I am very passionate about. So I feel like I have the strength and tenacity to hound it through Hell haha.

Oh and btw, what would police response times for different types of crimes fall under? That is, where can I find that info? I submitted an open records request but I was told it wasn't an open record so they didn't have to provide it. I suppose I need to ask for the right thing before they can deny me what I ask for lol.

Out of 83 signups, 20 emails bounced back. I'm guessing this is due to my partners mis-transcribing the sign-up sheets into typed format (student handwiriting and all). Will have to start calling.

Another question to folks here is how do I subtly go about making sure who is a felon and who is not? It's a big unversity, and felons can go to college. But, some of our outings will be to gun ranges and I don't think felons can handle firearms even there.

 

[Grapeshot]

No sir, they are not.

The restrictions are on the states, not on the people.

Your wrong. The state is the people.

Ohio Constitution:

My reply was directed to the U.S. Constitution & Bill of Rights re poetdante's remark about discrimination.

 

[poetdante]

No sir, they are not.

The restrictions are on the states, not on the people.

I don't quite follow, grapeshot. I meant in my post about discrimination being that schools and businesses discriminate against gun owners by not allowing them to carry in their stores. You couldn't prohibit any other group from carrying something or wearing something that is essentially their culture. I view guns as a huge part of America's culture and people who carry guns do so for protection of their persons, but also as a way to celebrate our nation: the freedom it stands for. My apologies for not being clear about that.

 

[Grapeshot]

I don't quite follow, grapeshot. I meant in my post about discrimination being that schools and businesses discriminate against gun owners by not allowing them to carry in their stores. You couldn't prohibit any other group from carrying something or wearing something that is essentially their culture. I view guns as a huge part of America's culture and people who carry guns do so for protection of their persons, but also as a way to celebrate our nation: the freedom it stands for. My apologies for not being clear about that.

What you originally said appeared to be from the BoR.

Originally Posted by poetdante

--snipped-- Prohibiting carry is discrimination of freedom of speech, freedom of life, and freedom of the pursuit of happiness

And yes people can be restricted from wearing hats & no shoes, no shirt, no service to name a few.

Nevertheless I do understand what you are trying to say.

 

[poetdante]

BoR?

Im glad I dont sound like a complete crazy lol