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Unlawful Detention by Mercer Island Police

compmanio365

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Apr 21, 2007
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Pierce County, Washington, USA
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Boo Boo wrote:
you also forget mercer island are full of the rich. they get scared if a minority gets seen on the island. they expect to get pampered.

there are alot of bullies in departments. if they don't have a IA department they feel they can get away with anything.
+1000, this is why we have had so many issues with "nice" parts of town, like the north end of Tacoma (Ruston Way, etc)....if you want to carry a gun in the ghetto, great, but you better not frighten the rich people that donate to the police department with your outrageous open carry. :banghead:
 

sudden valley gunner

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Sorry to read this, their action were dispicable. I think if it is illegal to lie to the police that it should be vice versa. I wish I was closer I would be hanging out in the park today, reading my book going about my own business. They forced your cooperation and as Citizen brought out this violates the 4th, the offending officers need to learn their lesson.

Oh not only California or New York cops but we have a lot of transplants from Hawaii and they are worse than California when it comes to guns. Plus there is a very different relationship between the police and citizens there the laws are "flexible" sometimes.
 

Citizen

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Citizen wrote:
Misguided Child wrote:
Citizen,

I didn't ask you a question and I have no use for commentary from someone who thinks he can read minds from across the country.

Iwas working on what I thought was obvious inference. As in, I inferred he could not have been agreeing with people seeing himbrandishing since he had just disclaimed it in the earlier sentence. Not to insult, but it seems to me that it yields an absurd result otherwise.

Not sure what you are upset about. I'm willing to clear it up and be on good terms if you are.


Forum,

Excuse me just a moment, folks. We have someone insisting on trouble. Despite my offer, just above, to clear up any misunderstanding and be on good terms with Mis-Child, he sent me an antagonistic PM.

Let no one misunderstand. If you send me an antagonistic PM, I will immediately make it public. All others I would keep in confidence. I consider I am under no obligation to keep the confidence of someone who is attacking me. Here it is:

_____Original Message_____
From: Misguided Child
Date: 2009-07-01 03:20:54
Subject: illegally detained, mercer island

I think it likely that he did have his hand on his gun, perhaps even took it out to show someone. But, I want HIS answer, not what you inferred, not what you 2nd guess from 3000 miles away and not the words you put in his mouth with your pointless interfering post.



Misguided Child,

That's the problem with internet forums. Anyone can comment, any time. Its allowed. Its expected. Whether they are a certified mind-reader or not. But you got me on the mind-reader part. I can't even read my boss's mind across the hall.

My offer to clear things up and be on good terms still stands. Lets clear it up andget back to focusing on the police violation of 4A, not each other.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Mercer Island, Washington, USA
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Thank you all for the support and assistance in this matter.

My cooperation was forced by my fear that they might arrest me for "resisting" or anything else they could trump up since they were already so antagonistic. It was only my daughter and me in the park and they would have had to take her to the police station as well if they had arrested me. Now I didn't know if they'd find some reason to arrest me, so I was as cautious as possible.

As for my admission that people saw me... its a very small park, and I was right in the middle watching my daughter chase a dog and play with other kids. I was following her and making sure that she didn't run into the road or anything. I was a little taken aback at the officer's behavior and I had the pamphlet right there which had all pertinent laws inside it... which of course they refused to even consider looking at. Admitting to obeying the law isn'ta crime is it?

Anyhoo... the 4th of July gathering would be an early to mid afternoon Tea Party protest and not the "official" OCDO Mercer Island Picnic which I suggest we have at Luther Burbank Park which has places for us to barbecue. All we need now is a time.

Saturday or Sunday?

July 11th Sat
July 12th Sun
July 25th Sat
July 26th Sun

August 1st Sat
August 2nd Sun
August 8th Sat
August 9th Sun

Everyone should pick the date that best works for them... whichever date gets the most picks will be the date for the Mercer Island Luther Burbank Open Carry Picnic. Now, of course, Aug 1-2 is Sea Fair... so that might not be great for a picnic since many might choose to be on the log boom or otherwise spend time with family watching the Blue Angels or something... on the other hand, Luther Burbank will have many flyovers... just no acrobatics.
 

sv_libertarian

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So have you heard anything back from MIPD? At the very least I hope you called the Chief's office and had a loooong talk with the man. I know a couple of other people here already have.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Mercer Island, Washington, USA
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sv_libertarian wrote:
So have you heard anything back from MIPD? At the very least I hope you called the Chief's office and had a loooong talk with the man. I know a couple of other people here already have.

I've now left two messages. One early yesterday and another this morning. I don't know how someone got through to him yesterday... but I was a little busy during the middle of the day with my wife, mother-in-law and daughter at an all day lunch & coffee with friends and family... and I had to speak Chinese (mandarin) the whole time, so by the end of the afternoon, my brain hurt.

I've filed a complaint on-line, and I will take a formal letter in when I go in and get the 911 transcript and the dispatcher's log.... apparently, the officers did not write up an incident report... or the people I talk with are not aware of it. I'll get that worked out however.
 

New Daddy

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
So have you heard anything back from MIPD? At the very least I hope you called the Chief's office and had a loooong talk with the man. I know a couple of other people here already have.

I've now left two messages. One early yesterday and another this morning. I don't know how someone got through to him yesterday... but I was a little busy during the middle of the day with my wife, mother-in-law and daughter at an all day lunch & coffee with friends and family... and I had to speak Chinese (mandarin) the whole time, so by the end of the afternoon, my brain hurt.

I've filed a complaint on-line, and I will take a formal letter in when I go in and get the 911 transcript and the dispatcher's log.... apparently, the officers did not write up an incident report... or the people I talk with are not aware of it. I'll get that worked out however.

You might want to file an official FOIA request asking for the report. I know Seattle has paid some hefty settlements over not complying with the FOIA. If you would sue, they'd set themselves up if they pulled a written report during discovery.
 

ChuckUFarley

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Renton, Washington, USA
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I would sue, and i would also get a restraining order aginst that ass hat of a cop who said he didint care what the law was, too bad you didnt have it on voice recorder.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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Mercer Island, Washington, USA
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Ed Holmes
Police Chief
Mercer Island Police Department
9611 SE 36th Street
Mercer Island, WA 98040

Dear Chief Holmes:

I am a two year resident of our fine city, and I am writing to express my concern and dismay about a recent incident involving three of your officers, and in particular, a Sergeant Noel. I was confronted by the three officers in Mercerdale Park on June 29[suP]th[/suP] and was the victim of callous and rude behavior, not to mention, unlawfully detained and property seized because of a complete disregard or ignorance of Washington State laws pertaining to the carrying of firearms.

Because Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms (RCW 9.41.050), I was doing nothing to warrant the type of treatment I received from your officers. The fact that Washington is an “open carry” State for firearms means a person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster without any kind of permit unless there is something that makes it specifically illegal. For example, carrying a weapon onto primary or secondary school grounds for any other reason besides dropping off or picking up that person’s child, or other prohibited places that do not violate the State’s laws per the State Preemption (RCW 9.41.290) which says that local laws may not exceed the requirements of State law and if they do, they shall not be enacted and are preempted.

For your reference, unlawful carrying is explained in (RCW 9.41.270). The RCW is specifically meant to address situations that are more than just walking around with an exposed firearm. Time after time in many municipalities surrounding Mercer Island, this protected right has been enforced and officer training has been held to inform and educate local police officers about the legality of open carry.

The unfortunate incident occurred as I was enjoying the evening with some new friends watching our children play together in the park with some dogs and a Frisbee. It was towards the end of my outing that the officers approached me. I was very polite and agreeable with them in terms of my demeanor, while they were immediately hostile and rude. I did not allow their rude behavior to provoke any similar reaction from myself and I remained polite and composed throughout the entire unfortunate incident. Your officers then proceeded to unlawfully detain me and handcuff me in and make me sit on the ground while my 3 year old daughter watched from 15 feet away. They also relieved me of my firearm without my permission and removed the magazine and the bullets from it and then dry fired it into the ground with the muzzle placed on the ground. I found this to be an egregious violation of my Fourth Amendment Constitutionally protected right to be to be secure in my person, house, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, which shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. I was 100% within the law and therefore there was no probable cause to warrant the detention and unlawful seizure of my property that I was subjected to on the grass at Mercerdale Park. Ignorance of the law is no rationale or excuse for such an obvious breach of the law by an officer sworn to uphold the law. What was more troubling was that Sergeant Noel stated that he did not care what Washington State law was, and that he would come out and detain me in the same way every time he either got a call from a concerned citizen or saw me open carrying. These threats are also a violation of my rights and can be considered harassment in the eyes of the law.

While I am upset and angered by the treatment I received and for the obvious violation of my rights, I only wish for all harassment to stop and for your officers to be made to take training pertaining to the lawful carrying of firearms as well as some sensitivity training as their rude and aggressive behavior was particularly disturbing.

I have written down the entire incident and submitted by Internet based complaint form and have informed an attorney of my wish to pursue further options if this type of treatment continues. It is my hope that we can work together to avoid any further incidents of this nature take place in Mercer Island.

It is my belief that all person’s rights must be respected, no matter if they are agreed with or not. I am looking forward to your response.

Sincerely,

John McClure

____________________________________________________________________

Ok guys, I appreciate the concern and your desire to see a lawsuit to teach the bad LEOs a lesson, but I have to live here and this community is my home. I will pursue a lawsuit if it happens again and I have a lawyer who said that we will very likely win as I have documented the incident that has happened quite well. I am also going to be carrying an MP3 voice recorder with me at all times now, so any further harassment will be caught on the recorder. It hangs around my neck and is attached to earphones so it is not in a pocket and will pick up every word spoken... this recorder is really good.

The letter above is what I will bring with me to the police station when I pick up the other information and hopefully have a sit down with the chief of police. You can help me to reword some sections you think might be better. I want to indicate the RCWs, but use my own words to complain. I figure he'll get plenty of legal documents and training bulletins from you guys.
 

deanf

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and if so could you get them for filing a false police report. (sic)

Probably not, unless you could prove that the caller lied about what happened.

RCW 9A.84.040

There are several elements of the crime of false reporting that need to be satisfied, few of which probably were in this situation.
 

New Daddy

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On the letter - I'd delete the entire recite of the 4th amendment. When I read it, I kept waiting for the punch line. Instead, I'd suggest this:

I found this to be an egregious violation of my constitutionally protected Fourth Amendment right to be to be secure in my person against unreasonable searches and seizures.
underlining/bolding denotes additional edits.
 

Ajetpilot

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
What was more troubling was that Sergeant Noel stated that he did not care what Washington State law was, and that he would come out and detain me in the same way every time he either got a call from a concerned citizen or saw me open carrying. These threats are also a violation of my rights and can be considered harassment in the eyes of the law.


Also coercion, RCW 9A36.070: "(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in."


IAW RCW 9A.04.110 para (27) c: "Threat" means to communicate, directly or indirectly the intent to subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint.
 

Washintonian_For_Liberty

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So the police chief just called me and apologized profusely for the violation of my rights and stated that he has given all the information he has received including the training bulletin to all his officers and dispatchers and has directed the training officer to create his own bulletin for Mercer Island and hold training for all officers and dispatchers in the town.

He also said that he understands this is a constitutionally protected right and he wants to make sure everyone's constitutional rights are protected by his police force.

He said he expects that every time I go out, he'll get a bunch of frantic calls from concerned citizens, but that he hopes that his dispatchers will handle the calls professionally and calm the callers down by explaining how open carry is completely legal. He said they'd still have to send an officer, but that they would instruct them to only observe rather than confront.
 

Right Wing Wacko

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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
He said he expects that every time I go out, he'll get a bunch of frantic calls from concerned citizens, but that he hopes that his dispatchers will handle the calls professionally and calm the callers down by explaining how open carry is completely legal. He said they'd still have to send an officer, but that they would instruct them to only observe rather than confront.
This is good!
 

jarhead1911A

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Yup i say we need a OC event at that park, i am all for making a fool of a few idiot officers.
 

FrayedString

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East Wenatchee, Washington, USA
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Washintonian_For_Liberty wrote:
So the police chief just called me and apologized profusely for the violation of my rights and stated that he has given all the information he has received including the training bulletin to all his officers and dispatchers and has directed the training officer to create his own bulletin for Mercer Island and hold training for all officers and dispatchers in the town.

He also said that he understands this is a constitutionally protected right and he wants to make sure everyone's constitutional rights are protected by his police force.

He said he expects that every time I go out, he'll get a bunch of frantic calls from concerned citizens, but that he hopes that his dispatchers will handle the calls professionally and calm the callers down by explaining how open carry is completely legal. He said they'd still have to send an officer, but that they would instruct them to only observe rather than confront.


This makes me happy. :)
 
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