March on Washington 07-04-2013

[autosurgeon]

Yep he is a nut and imop an agent provocateur.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

 

[since9]

I came here to sound the warning horn on this one, but it seems a number of you appear to have gotten the message.

To reiterate:

- Adam Kokesh served in Iraq, separated honorably, and self-admittedly suffers from PTSD (he wrote a paper in 2005 for his Psych thesis entitled, "Hot, Dirty, and Dangerous: Seven Months of Civil and Not-So-Civil Affairs In And Around Fallujah"

- Kokesh is on both video and audio stating, “This is an armed revolt against the American government…. Make no mistake about it…. We are going with the aim of overthrowing the government.”

- Kokesh, along with several Muslims, also attempted to fake a hate crime in 2007 at George Washington University.

- Kokesh is not only a member of Iraq Veterans Against The War (IVAW), but he is a spokesman for them.
- - The IVAW is allied with members of the Muslim American Society (MAS)
- - The Muslim American Society is a “de facto arm of the Muslim Brotherhood in the U.S.,” whose agenda is to impose Islamic law in America and to undermine our counter-terrorism policies. (Steven Emerson, director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism
- - IVAW not only works with the Muslim American Society, but has endorsed and participated in protests alongside anti-Israel organizations such as the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition and Al-Awda: The Palestine Right to Return Coalition.

- Though honorably discharged from the Marines, he continued to use a former rank of sergeant, before his DD214 was made public. Following that revelation, he dropped the rank. When Kokesh was in the Marines, he did achieve the rank of sergeant, but was demoted to corporal.

- Kokesh has/had ties with CODEPINK, SDS, A.N.S.W.E.R., United for Justice and Peace, Communist Party of America, Muslim Brotherhood, the Black Panthers, the IVAW, Winter Soldier, and George Soros.

- Larry Bailey, a Retired United States Navy SEAL Captain (O-6, one rank below Admiral), said the following of Kokesh: "Adam Kokesh, candidate for the Republican nomination for the US House of Representatives from the Third District of New Mexico, is doing his best to deceive the electorate. He portrays himself as a libertarian conservative, but he is neither libertarian nor conservative."

Conclusion: In light of the above, I can only conclude that he's been manipulated into leading this as a fall guy, for two reasons:
A: To lead America to believe those of us who exercise our 2A rights are radical idiots
B: As an entrapment for extremists who will ignore all the warning signs and head out to D.C. anyway.

One (of many) good sources of information about Kokesh can be found here.

 

[joanie]

People should research his past.

Agreed,

Message of Freedom in One Minute- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5lhkNUtkBA

Justice for Kelly Thomas- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg7hUknPr2g

Boston Massacre- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSdRNDbB27E

How he handles a cop- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI8vjoFjmdY

Yep, I like him.

Is taxation theft?- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XebGuqD5R0

Obama supporters say the darndest things- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XNM2Vu7Njw

Obama's legal excuse to execute Americans without trial- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAbiAwS6BN8

I really like him, and agree with his views. If he is arrested, I will call for his release. His voice is one with mine.

stand up to the police- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMWw7wwsAHc

Dancing at Jefferson Memorial- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI

 

[sharkey]

Hellooooooooo? Rebel.

Once again I will posit that rights are expanded by lawbreakers. Whether it be armed resistance, peaceful protest, or criminals challenging laws in open court.

Rights are not generally advanced by other means. There are of course, exceptions. AZCDL does a good job here in Arizona through lobbying.

 

[FreeInAZ]

Hellooooooooo? Rebel.

Once again I will posit that rights are expanded by lawbreakers. Whether it be armed resistance, peaceful protest, or criminals challenging laws in open court.

Rights are not generally advanced by other means. There are of course, exceptions. AZCDL does a good job here in Arizona through lobbying.

Well said+1!

Can I be blunt? Many US citizens are just plain ignorant when it comes to rights & the history behind them. Many here are singling out the organizer of this event. Ok? And many are "afraid" that this march will lead to further restrictions on our rights. I get it, I do, I too am afraid of many things our government has done in the past and may do in the future. Now imagine if Rosa Parks had other black people tell her not to make a stink over having to sit in the back of the bus? Why? Because they didn't want the "trouble" it could bring for them too.

I am ashamed that today, in the 21st century - I have to be afraid & cautious about exercising my constitutonal rights. Why? Because I might be singled out by someone in government that didn't like what I or others have to say, 1st amendment be damned. This is far from the free america my grand father & father invisioned for me & my family. Millions of men & women have served this country to protect those rights, my family incuded, now only to see them being stripped away by the stokes of pens in the hands of people who clearly do not honor their oath to the peoples will - the United States Constitution.

It is the idea of this march that should matter and that, to my knowledge, is to draw attention to laws that are clearly in violation of the constitution. Remember - there is one thing that really scares would be tyrants and keeps them awake at night, and that is idea's that turn into action by honest people.

 

[We-the-People]

Okay, so I've read this entire thread, start to finish. I've seen a LOT of people state that the actions Kokesh is promoting (i.e. the march) is illegal (including some who have said that he's said it himself).

While the owners of OCDO have graciously allowed this thread to continue even though it discusses long gun OC AND violating the law (with the caveats that they made in so allowing), I have NOT seen where they stated RULE 5: CITE TO AUTHORITY. As such, I would like to see a citation to any federal law that states openly transporting a long gun through the District of Columbia is unlawful.

Kokesh's "rally" is not for the purpose of commerce, there are no transfers of weapons planned, the District of Columbia, as the "federal city" is bound by the 2nd amendment even without Heller, and the Constitution grants no power for the federal government, which is solely responsible for the District, to usurp the 2nd amendment. Now, I'm not saying they won't trample any who participate in the planned event. We should all know with some certainty that they will most definitely try to place their black boots upon the necks of citizens. One need only look at how Watertown was treated post bombing to see that they have little concern for the rule of law, the Constitution, or even the concept of the Bill of Rights.

What I am saying is this, what federal law would they be breaking? DC law is moot as the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8 states grants authority over the District exclusively to the Congress. Art I Sec 8 states, "To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards".

That doesn't mean they haven't been violating the law, the Constitution, and the rights of the citizens. But without some federal law that is going to be violated, and Congressional powers are limited to those in Article I, Section 8 (the commerce clause is generally the one used for firearms regulation), there is no legal issue.

So, I ask. Cite to Authority. Otherwise, we're all just assuming that it's an illegal act OR we are granting powers to the civil (non Congressional) government of the District.


NEXT POINT:
Title 18, USC provides an exception (to state laws) for travelling through a state. Unfortunately, it only discusses vehicular travel and not travel by foot. If one can not travel by foot and lawfully transport a firearm through a state during that travel, isn't that a violation of the "equal protections" clause of the 14th amendment? Unequal treatment based on ones inability to travel by vehicle for whatever reason such as not being able to afford a vehicle in which to travel or perhaps just not desiring to travel by vehicle. Then again, the District is NOT a state and can have no state laws, only those laws that the Congress enacts (well Constitutionally anyway).

NEXT POINT (and the one I can not imagine why it hasn't been brought up previously)
What if the entire purpose Kokesh has in mind is simply a feint? Someone previously mentioned Sun Tzu and a feint like I am thinking would be classic Sun Tzu, and there is a good chance that Kokesh has read Sun Tzu as it is highly touted reading in all branches (at least when I was in).

(imagine Sun Tzu if you are familiar with the book).......Imagine, no matter how good their intel, the powers that be can not ignore the possibility that Kokesh won't stroll into the District with however many real (and perhaps imaginary) "soldiers" he has amassed. In order to deal with that possibility, they must position resources and prepare for the "threat". So Kokesh goes all the way to the wire, the morning of the 4th, and then announces that the mission has been accomplished because the "enemy" has expended how many thousands of dollars in manpower and equipment to prepare for a threat that never materializes at their border but only "just beyond and out of their reach".

I grant that this would likely cause some very pissed off people, particularly those having travelled long distances, for Kokesh to deal with but perhaps he has a plan for that.

I don't think this scenario likely but it would be a classic deception.



Just my thoughts. I have many more on the subject but this post is long enough already.

 

[sharkey]

Off topic yet on topic.

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records

FUQ

The Associated Press is protesting what it calls a massive and unprecedented intrusion into its gathering of news. The target of that wrath is the U.S. Justice Department, which secretly collected phone records for several AP reporters last year. The AP says it's caught in the middle of a Justice Department leak investigation.

What the **** is happening to this country?

/end rant

 

[sharkey]

As others have pointed out many of Adam's "followers" are anarchists. They do not need a leader. Even if he calls it off the march will still happen.

Updated numbers:

Going 3987
Maybe 3510

Quote from an anonymous follower on FB

[h=5]Adam Kokesh is NOT our leader.

Adam Kokesh has presented and organized an opportunity for individuals to become a part of, that's it! WE as a group make this an historic event, not him or ANY other individual.

Please stop referring to him as the leader, his is not!! Whether we show up in support of this event or not is an individual decision. So, all of those individuals you see preparing to cross the bridge are there speaking on their own behalf.

If you are the type of person who needs a leader in YOUR life then fine, LAW ABIDING gun owners by their very nature assume responsibility for themselves.

Collectively we are Americans who help define the United States.[/h]

SNIP

NEXT POINT (and the one I can not imagine why it hasn't been brought up previously)
What if the entire purpose Kokesh has in mind is simply a feint? Someone previously mentioned Sun Tzu and a feint like I am thinking would be classic Sun Tzu, and there is a good chance that Kokesh has read Sun Tzu as it is highly touted reading in all branches (at least when I was in).

(imagine Sun Tzu if you are familiar with the book).......Imagine, no matter how good their intel, the powers that be can not ignore the possibility that Kokesh won't stroll into the District with however many real (and perhaps imaginary) "soldiers" he has amassed. In order to deal with that possibility, they must position resources and prepare for the "threat". So Kokesh goes all the way to the wire, the morning of the 4th, and then announces that the mission has been accomplished because the "enemy" has expended how many thousands of dollars in manpower and equipment to prepare for a threat that never materializes at their border but only "just beyond and out of their reach".

I grant that this would likely cause some very pissed off people, particularly those having travelled long distances, for Kokesh to deal with but perhaps he has a plan for that.

I don't think this scenario likely but it would be a classic deception.



Just my thoughts. I have many more on the subject but this post is long enough already.

 

[We-the-People]

So Kokesh the anarchist is organizing the event......reminds me of a quote from a Seattle protest. A member of an anarchist group protesting the WTO stated (paraphrased from memory) "the superior organization of the Anarchy movement will outmaneuver the opposition". Hmmmm isn't that a little oxymoronic?

 

[sharkey]

So Kokesh the anarchist is organizing the event......reminds me of a quote from a Seattle protest. A member of an anarchist group protesting the WTO stated (paraphrased from memory) "the superior organization of the Anarchy movement will outmaneuver the opposition". Hmmmm isn't that a little oxymoronic?

Well maybe he's not an anarchist. Updated from the FB page.

All who attend this march armed will be asked to stand and move in a military formation in order to maintain unity and safety. You will be expected to be dressed professionally, and there will be an inspection. As organizer, AVTM reserves the right to reject anyone from the formation at any time for any reason. There will be no use of recording devices by anyone once they have joined the ranks. If you'd like to film or photograph, please do so from outside the formation so there is no potential for confusion with hand motions. If you are not ACTIVE law enforcement, you will be asked to leave if you have any firearms other than a single rifle or shotgun slung across your back with the muzzle pointed down. Aside from adjusting the sling, you will not touch your weapon at any time during this event.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

So Kokesh the anarchist is organizing the event......reminds me of a quote from a Seattle protest. A member of an anarchist group protesting the WTO stated (paraphrased from memory) "the superior organization of the Anarchy movement will outmaneuver the opposition". Hmmmm isn't that a little oxymoronic?

Because anarchy means without rulers, it doesn't mean no organization by free people.

 

[OC for ME]

On topic-ish:

Fight for your rights, people need to understand you have to make a stand. We keep marking a line in the sand and say if you cross this line....now cross this line....now cross this line. People who are against this, would agree MLK, Gandhi, and Malcom X and so on were wrong in standing up against oppression? It seems those of us in the "gun rights" movement are simply blowhards. People are not even willing to sacrifice elementary arrests let alone death. Freedom is not free. Either stand up for your rights or step aside.

Friday through Sunday. ~1000 miles, two and a half tanks of gas, two nights stay in a hotel = ~$1,000 with incidentals. A small price to pay for liberty.....no?

Off topic:

<snip> You are showing a base misunderstanding of Voluntaryism. It's not "volunteerism". <snip>

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.

http://www.voluntaryist.com/fundamentals/introduction.html

^^nutjobs^^

I suspect that there nearly as many permutations of libertarians as there are permutations of Cockroaches. If libertarianism were all that and a bag of chips then I would have joined that political party.

Off topic, but getting back on topic very soon:

Social leadership doesn't necessarily equate to "ruler".

Rules can also be enforced by social ostracism. <snip>

Range wars, water wars, back in the day. I contend that the "wild west" was about as close as we got to that anachro-capitalist crap.

Anyone who thinks that a group of voluntary-ists won't "form" up to take from 'X' what they need, or think they need, because 'X' won't share is a nitwit. It has happened in the past and will happen again in the future.

Government ensures (well, is supposed to ensure) that said group of voluntary-ists don't infringe upon the right(s) of 'X' cuz 'X' did not violate the voluntary-ists rights when he gain control of the water, if you will.

There are things that belong to all of "society", like water, and government is supposed to ensure that we all enjoy a drink of water.

If I read a anachro-capitalist correctly, and i do not think that I can read this moving target very well, they are anti-constitution, that very document that enumerates their natural right to keep and bear arms. Thus, ironically, government has a mandate to protect your guns from a anachro-capitalist who may feel threatened by your guns and does not see a need for a government to take your gun away, he will do it himself, along with his anachro-capitalist buddies.

Finally, back on topic:

I got up off my sofa to type this post. Kokesh will do more harm than good to our efforts to restore our liberties that are enumerated in our Founding Documents. The cause of liberty will be ill served by this show of force, this is a reality. I will pray for a non-violent event.

OCDO has permitted this discussion to continue. I am disappointed.

 

[rushcreek2]

( Gasp ) Finally managed to find the end of this marathon " tennis match ".

To my point - I believe the bone of contention in our midst is that this July 4th, 2013 planned event is not merely HYPOTHETICAL.

Were it hypothetical most of us would be cheerleaders - at least in the abstract.

Seems as though I have heard it said that it is insanity to "assault" a fortified, dug-in position- IF THERE IS ANY OTHER OPTION AVAILABLE. I know - this is a demonstration - not an "assault". If a permit is not granted , it can be interpreted as an assault - an ARMED assault at that, and the " OFFICER SAFETY" presumption is ALWAYS that a firearm is LOADED.

I will join the chorus that this is AT THIS JUNCTURE not a good idea.

Having said that.........there are many issues currently in flux that could cause the landscape to deteriorate to the point that political critical mass is achieved. In that event the "demonstration" might become an "activation".

I am thinking back to 1989 Moscow for a reference point comparison.

If I were involved in planning such a show of force I would station it on the most proximate NEUTRAL ground. As I understand this event- it would approach the threshold of a "shot across the bow"......a bit extreme AT THIS JUNCTURE -IMHO.

 

[Tactical9mm]

A factual resource on Anarcho-Capitalist philosophy

Many of the responses in this thread that are negatively addressing the Anarcho-Capitalist ideology aren't factually accurate. As a result, here is a resource that after having perused it I feel comfortable linking in this thread.

I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, but in this case the collection of material and summaries is dead-on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

 

[joanie]

While the owners of OCDO have graciously allowed this thread to continue even though it discusses long gun OC AND violating the law (with the caveats that they made in so allowing), I have NOT seen where they stated RULE 5: CITE TO AUTHORITY. As such, I would like to see a citation to any federal law that states openly transporting a long gun through the District of Columbia is unlawful.

Just my opinion, this is a popular topic, members have posted replys in support of, and condeming not only this march, but the alowance of discussion about it. Speaking as admin and moderator myself, I would not dare censor this topic in any way shape or form. It would be a sure way to drive away active posting members from the site.

If I had to guess the outcome, police, or similar will form a blocade and turn back the march, later there might be charges against Adam, and counter charges against the police. He will do what he sets out to do, bring attention to this. I think it's up to all of us to take what comes of this and make the most of it. To continue this work in the name of freedom and our rights. More marches, or walks, more such events. Read my signature, it's not just worde, this is real, it's happening and the more we accept it, the longer it goes unchallenged, the harder it will be to turn it around.

Every time one of us gets a permit to conceal carry, every time we regester a gun, or opt for a 10 round magazine instead of a 15 round, we endorse an infringment to the 2ed amendment. This applys to more than the 2ed though. Every time we comply with an unjust law, we endorse it, set it futher in stone. Thats not to say we shouldn't obay the laws, I won't fault anyone for taking steps to stay out of jail. Just stating a fact. How long do you think the seatbelt law would'ive lasted if the day after it passed, everyone cut out the seatbelt from their car and refused to wear it? The open container law has nothing to do with driving drunk, what if we all would hang an empty beer can from our rear view mirror? how long would that law last? Many of these laws are only for making money from fines, what if, we took it to a jury and cost the courts money instead of setteling and willingly paying the fines and costs? How long would these laws last?

I think this march can be a good or bad thing, depending on what we make of it. That puts the ball in our hands, scary thought I know, we can no longer just watch from the side, we have to be in the game. That, or just accept what comes our way.

--

I just called and talked to the complaints department of their police department and said that alot of people from all over were watching this, and that they should advise their police to allow the march to proceed as planned. I pretty much told them if they didn't, that they could expect a flood of complaints, Me included, and should be ready to process them.

 

[JmE]

(((You summed up my thoughts about this march and the current situation with Liberty in our nation, joanie. Excellent post!)))


Yeah, this event is really not the ideal situation. However, our present position as free individuals in the United States of America is certainly far from ideal. This march isn't how I'd plan things but I am not organizing anything. I don't march for Adam Kokesh or anyone except myself and my children. Presently, even though we gain some ground towards restoration of Liberty in some areas, we always are losing more ground elsewhere. I am less free now than I've ever been in my lifetime. Government has encroached on the 1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, etc. Lately, we've gained some on the right to keep and bear arms but we've lost so much elsewhere at the same time. Our nation is bleeding and July 4th of this year IS the right time to make a statement about the individual RKBA in DC, IMHO. In a half a year's time who knows if our nation will have on its war paint and national martial law would be a realistic possibility for this administration over such an event. How much more foolish would it be to have such a large and open demonstration then? How much worse our economy might be effecting individuals six months hence? I've noticed more than a few people are scraping whatever funds they can to attend. That's the situation for me. I'll have to sell things and/or locally pass the hat to get there (and hopefully back ). Who knows if these same people could even muster enough funds to be there a year or even half a year from now.

It's my strong opinion that, even though this event has its issues, this is the right time to make a public statement with nonviolent actions. It's long past time for civil disobedience in other rights issues, as well.

 

[John Pierce]

Right now, despite any stated position, it sure looks to me like OCDO is de facto supporting this march.

I will say it again. We are NOT SUPPORTING THIS MARCH!

There are a LOT of problems with this event, starting with the fact that it will expose attendees to arrest in both Virginia and DC. Yes ... that's right ... some attendees may be breaking the law in Virginia as well depending upon whether they have a permit recognized by Virginia and the capacity of the firearm they choose to bring.

--------------
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.


It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.


The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
---------------

Moving beyond that is the fact the Adam Kokesh comes with a lot of baggage. See this post at FreedomOutpost.com for more details. http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/a...ntal-instability-has-muslim-brotherhood-ties/

However, this has generated a lot of discussion of open carry and how draconian the District's laws are and I believe it would be ludicrous for us to try and pretend the discussion isn't happening.


John

 

[Adams182]

Finally, back on topic:

I got up off my sofa to type this post. Kokesh will do more harm than good to our efforts to restore our liberties that are enumerated in our Founding Documents. The cause of liberty will be ill served by this show of force, this is a reality. I will pray for a non-violent event.

OCDO has permitted this discussion to continue. I am disappointed.

Wow... You sound like what everyone was saying about the OC movement when it started. That we will set everything back and lose what we have gaine, that we are just a bunch of radicle nutjobs. Yet hear we are, all for the better due to the work of the OC movement IMHO. We have armed rallies all over the county and yet to have something bad result from it. The only ones who see it as Illegal are the ones in DC whose "law" has been shown not a law and unconstitutional by the constitution itself and DC v. Heller. I'm not saying a negative isn't possible, and it most certainly shouldn't be overlooked or underestimated. But there will never be a "right" time for this to happen.

I also applaud OCDO for keeping this up, thanks john!

 

[sharkey]

I think the march is an opportune target for terrorists, but so are sporting events and malls.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/terrorist-coalition-to-strike-within-u-s/#GIOSzGhxilcIQBD4.99

Iran believes that the perception of security in America that has helped empower its actions in the Middle East must be turned 180 degrees, not only to defeat and derail all U.S. calculations based on gathered intelligence but to destabilize the political, economic and social conditions in America, the source said.


Based on that understanding, he said, the U.S. through its military might has kept the fight in the Islamic region and away from its homeland and its allies’ turf. Now continuous operations must be conducted in the U.S. homeland to change that equation, they believe.


More than 2,600 targets, including public places, government buildings and military installations, have been chosen for attack, and reconnaissance has been done. Information about some of the targets, based on direct knowledge of the source, has been given to U.S. officials to neutralize the threat and confront the terrorists. They include specific government buildings, news networks, malls and sports events.

​

 

[Adams182]

--------------
§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.


It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (b) shotgun with a magazine that will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered on or about his person on any public street, road, alley, sidewalk, public right-of-way, or in any public park or any other place of whatever nature that is open to the public in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.


The provisions of this section shall not apply to law-enforcement officers, licensed security guards, military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, or any person having a valid concealed handgun permit or to any person actually engaged in lawful hunting or lawful recreational shooting activities at an established shooting range or shooting contest. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
---------------


John

looking for opinions, not legal advice

So by this would it be save to assume that a person who does not meet the permit required would be able to carry a .22 rimfire? And what about a "full size" caliber in a bolt action not semi-auto. Or a pump even.