That would be a far, far better thing than most would ever be able to do. Great thought.
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March on Washington 07-04-2013
- Thread starter Fuller Malarkey
- Start date
That would be a far, far better thing than most would ever be able to do. Great thought.
eye95
Well-known member
So, what do you and the admins think about an alternative event that eschews breaking the law? I have started a thread based on another poster's suggestion. I'd love to see folk who also want to change the status quo by using methods short of "armed revolt" or "overthrowing the government" endorse this idea.
Whaddaya say?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
<o>
Originally Posted by Grapeshot
That would be a far, far better thing than most would ever be able to do. Great thought.
My comment quoted above is a total aside remark - had nothing directly to do with the thread.
A legal pro RKBA march could really be a good thing.
eye95
Well-known member
And your post merely provided me a way to indicate that I was speaking specifically to you. I probably should have snipped the whole thing.
Anyway, are you willing to make a more supportive statement than it being a "good thing"? Are you willing to ask the admins for their take?
It would present an opportunity to affirm that this site supports LEGAL actions to promote OC of properly holstered handguns.
Update, Adam Kokesh never was arrested by the regular police. He may have not even be offically arrested. He was taken by the park police ant turned over to federal agents. I'm not sure about this info, but heres where I found it,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEKzN3xqzgM
I'm not sure how many here are familar with NDAA, but sections of it say that American citizens can be taken at random and disposed of as the DHS sees fit, without due process and stripped of their rights under the primise of being a suspected terrorist. It was a bill that Obama promised to veto, promised not to sign, turned out that his administration wrote it. It was signed into law last year on a holiday (new years eve) when there was no one in congress to oppose it.
No one seems to have heard from Adam, the regular police know nothing, he is not at their jail. The few answers his fans and supporters are getting are vauge. He is a public figure, People are going to ask questions about his disapearance. maybe that will work in his favor.
Again, I support this march on the 4th of July even though I would do it diffrently, I do not support or endorse, in fact I condem this effort of his on the smoking of pot. or any drug useage. By diffrently, I mean as this is a demonstration, and not regular everyday open carry, I would not be for having the guns loaded. Still, video cameras everywhere should be enough to hold all acountable. If I lived within 80 miles of this, I'd be there with a video camera. Just so long as they weren't smoking pot, lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEKzN3xqzgM
I'm not sure how many here are familar with NDAA, but sections of it say that American citizens can be taken at random and disposed of as the DHS sees fit, without due process and stripped of their rights under the primise of being a suspected terrorist. It was a bill that Obama promised to veto, promised not to sign, turned out that his administration wrote it. It was signed into law last year on a holiday (new years eve) when there was no one in congress to oppose it.
No one seems to have heard from Adam, the regular police know nothing, he is not at their jail. The few answers his fans and supporters are getting are vauge. He is a public figure, People are going to ask questions about his disapearance. maybe that will work in his favor.
Again, I support this march on the 4th of July even though I would do it diffrently, I do not support or endorse, in fact I condem this effort of his on the smoking of pot. or any drug useage. By diffrently, I mean as this is a demonstration, and not regular everyday open carry, I would not be for having the guns loaded. Still, video cameras everywhere should be enough to hold all acountable. If I lived within 80 miles of this, I'd be there with a video camera. Just so long as they weren't smoking pot, lol
Lyndsy Simon
Regular Member
People on Reddit are saying that he was transported from the scene of the protest by the Federal Park Police, in a white suburban. No one has heard from him or about him since. Local law enforcement are apparently denying any knowledge.
Yep, already taking care of that and other things. I'm leaning towards purchase of a cheap, used single shot 12 gauge shotgun to carry instead.
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If it was only against DC tyranny, I'd strongly consider joining it instead, my friend. Sadly, I don't see that happening. All of those against a march done in this way could turn out in larger numbers to protest government infringement and I think the two would compliment in a way. On one hand you have people fed up enough to do something, almost anything (like armed civil disobedience) and on the other hand people fed up enough to do something like show the heck up. The message is hear our grievances and address them otherwise there might be even more marching in the other group the next time.
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That's unfortunate. Your disdain for this one man would split what could otherwise be a useful protest. Do you realize how many of the people from the other march this protest would have gained if you could have lost your short-sighted hatred for Kokesh? I'm actually surprised and a bit disappointed.
Moving on.
I suspected he would try to get arrested prior to the march when I saw a recent video of him, trying to get arrested, in DC for filming on the sidewalk.
The problem is, he will probably be charged with some sort of conspiracy against the government for organizing this march which may well carry a similar sentence to getting arrested at the march.
[video=youtube;NuxlnEgLZRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuxlnEgLZRE[/video]
ETA .. add his arrest video .. poor audio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHBC6JOc4M
P.S. How can you only charge someone with resisting arrest? If there are no other charges how could the arrest be lawful for resisting to be a crime?
And P.P.S. Was Adam saying we avoid this kind of violence and talking the crowd down from further action? I can't be sure because if the audio but if so that is counter to those saying he craves violence.
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eye95
Well-known member
I thought the march was a stupid idea long before I knew much about Kokesh. Knowing now what I do about the man, I would not be willing to follow him marching into Hell, for a Heavenly cause. The problem is not Kokesh, it is the march. He is, however, still a despicable person. His design of the march is just one more indicator of the horrible person that he is.
So, while complaining that a march would be divisive you then want to do an even more divisive protest which will publicly show the enemies of Liberty our Achilles heel that has plagued freedom and patriot movements. THAT makes no damned sense.
*sigh* //shakes head and walks away//
*sigh* //shakes head and walks away//
shastadude17
Regular Member
I guess there's a reason only 3% of colonists fought against tyranny in our first revolution...because of naysayers like you with disdain for people who are more passionate about the cause of liberty than you've ever been about anything. We are humans. Humans look to leaders for guidance, and Kokesh is a leader.
eye95
Well-known member
Who complained that the march would be divisive? Certainly not me. I am against it because it is illegal and dangerous. I am convinced that someone on one side or the other will start shooting.
The more I learn about the nutjob Kokesh, the more I am convinced that he wants an exchange of gunfire!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
<o>
eye95
Well-known member
As I have said repeatedly, we are not yet at a when-in-the-course-of-human-events moment. If and when the government marches on us to take away our firearms, we will be. That's what actually started the shooting war for independence, not the colonists marching armed on the British.
If you can't (or won't) see the difference between the British marching on us, and Kokesh's illegal mob marching on the seat of government, then I don't really care. It is not you whom I am trying to convince. It is the hundreds of folks quietly reading this thread whom I hope to stop from participating in Kokesh's Folly.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.
<o>
We-the-People
Regular Member
,
Actually, having studied this subject (Second Hand Smoke or "SHS"), there is no scientifically valid evidence showing any harm done to humans by second hand smoke. Those studies I've found that state such harms are defective in one or more ways such as increasing the margin of error, cherry picking, having such small sample frames that they are statistically invalid, etc. Further, the claims made are always at the extreme worst and ignore the RANGE of possibilities.
As an example, a major EPA "study" (actually a meta analysis of cherry picked studies conducted by other parties) stated that SHS caused a 16% increase in risk. What it didn't report was that the margin of error was doubled (making the results scientifically invalid), that the RANGE of the relative risk included 1.0 (which is no risk) and was actually below 1.0 which indicates a possible "protective factor". Nor did they tell anyone that the study was taken to court and a federal judge threw it out due to invalid scientific methods. On appeal the EPA only challenged the courts jurisdiction, not ANY of the facts, and another federal judge reversed ONLY on jurisdictional grounds.
The World Health Organization (WHO) also did a "major study" (according to them) but when they didn't like the results they tried to bury them. Found out by the press, they released a press release that stated "Don't let them lie to you: Second Hand Smoke kills"......in the small print at the very bottom of the release it stated "our study was too small to be scientifically valid".
So, SHS and all the BS laws controlling smoking are no different than gun control laws. It's about CONTROL and nothing else.
P.S. How can you only charge someone with resisting arrest? If there are no other charges how could the arrest be lawful for resisting to be a crime? And P.P.S. Was Adam saying we avoid this kind of violence and talking the crowd down from further action? I can't be sure because if the audio but if so that is counter to those saying he craves violence.
Theres another video that surfaced that showed someone planting something on Adam, or trying to, as he was being taken away. On the surface one would think this was pot, but considering he was handed over to federal agents, and regular police know nothing, I suspect maybe they planted a bio weapon of some kind to justify placing him under NDAA detention and subjection. This way, he has no due process and they (DHS) can dispose of him as they see fit.
Actually, having studied this subject (Second Hand Smoke or "SHS"), there is no scientifically valid evidence showing any harm done to humans by second hand smoke. Those studies I've found that state such harms are defective in one or more ways such as increasing the margin of error, cherry picking, having such small sample frames that they are statistically invalid, etc. Further, the claims made are always at the extreme worst and ignore the RANGE of possibilities.
Your talking to the wrong person if your tring to make a case for smoking. Any studies you seen that shows it to be harmless was conducted by scientists, and/or organazations owned or controled, hired, ect. by the tobacco companys.
As an example, a major EPA "study" (actually a meta analysis of cherry picked studies conducted by other parties) stated that SHS caused a 16% increase in risk. What it didn't report was that the margin of error was doubled (making the results scientifically invalid), that the RANGE of the relative risk included 1.0 (which is no risk) and was actually below 1.0 which indicates a possible "protective factor". Nor did they tell anyone that the study was taken to court and a federal judge threw it out due to invalid scientific methods. On appeal the EPA only challenged the courts jurisdiction, not ANY of the facts, and another federal judge reversed ONLY on jurisdictional grounds.
The EPA is one such company, they have a long history of corruption.
The World Health Organization (WHO) also did a "major study" (according to them) but when they didn't like the results they tried to bury them. Found out by the press, they released a press release that stated "Don't let them lie to you: Second Hand Smoke kills"......in the small print at the very bottom of the release it stated "our study was too small to be scientifically valid".
So, SHS and all the BS laws controlling smoking are no different than gun control laws. It's about CONTROL and nothing else. .
Bullets don't float through the air controled by the wind and kill people at random. If I thought guns were one tenth as harmfull as smoking, Id be for banning them all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA45gKLv9Ys
The number one leading cause of death in the history of the world. Theres alot of softkill in our food and water, but nothing comes close to smoking, wit can kill you in so many ways, and increase the potency of the other softkills. Blocking the lungs capicity to take in oxegen (tar) addictive drug that increases the heart rate (nicotene) Smoking does not relax you, quite the oppisite. In addition to raising blood pressure and heart rate, it constricts the vains and arteries, makes them brittle, this is a dangerious combination. Second hand smoke in some cases, can be even more harmfull than smoking first hand. Much of what others breathe don't go through a filter, but comes right off the end.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/cigarette-smoking-harmful-effects-on-the-body.html
Harmful Effects of Cigarette Smoking
Tobacco contains harmful chemicals such as nicotine and cyanide, which at higher doses are lethal. Nicotine is an alkaloid that has been used in insecticides and in medicines. Though everyone is aware of the fact that smoking can cause serious life-threatening health complications, people can't quit since nicotine is highly addictive, similar to heroin and other addictive drugs. Researchers have found out that nicotine has a powerful impact on the brain activity and the body and mind get used to it as normal. Due to its unavoidable harmful effects, governments have launched public awareness programs and campaigns that ban smoking in public places. Let's see some of the harmful effects of smoking on the human body.
Heart Disease and Stroke: Every time a person smokes, his/her heart rate increases temporarily due to the smoke that contains a mixture of carbon monoxide and nicotine. It results in straining the heart and blood vessels, leading to high blood pressure or hypertension. Smoking also causes fat deposition in the blood vessels and narrows them, causing heart attack and stroke. There are also cases of paralysis of feet and hands due to reduced blood supply and lack of oxygen in those parts of the body. About 30% of the deaths from heart disease are due to smoking.
Emphysema: Cigarette smoking is one of the major causes of emphysema. Emphysema is a chronic disease caused due to damage and destruction of the walls of the alveoli (tiny air sacs) in the lungs. Cigarette smoke enhances the production of substances that reduce the elasticity of the air sacs inside the lungs. This results in the overall reduction of the lung's ability in inhaling oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide. About 80-90% of cases of emphysema are due to cigarette smoking. Patients of emphysema suffer from shortness of breath.
Cancer: Smoking can cause different types of cancer including lung, throat, stomach, and bladder cancer. Overall, 30% cases of cancer and 87% percent of lung cancer are due to smoking. Lung cancer is caused due to the tar (a thick sticky substance) in the tobacco smoke. It is found out that male smokers have 10 times more chances of getting lung cancer, than the non-smoking male population.
Heartburn and Peptic Ulcer: Smoking affects the whole digestive system of the body leading to heartburn and peptic ulcer. It weakens the lower esophageal sphincter (LES), and allows entry of the stomach's natural acidic juices to esophagus, which in turn causes heartburn. Smoking increases the chances of infection of the stomach lining and also leads to excessive secretion of stomach acids. Therefore cases of peptic ulcer are seen more among people who smoke cigarettes.
Passive smoking is highly dangerous. According to a study, women who are exposed to passive smoking either in their childhood or as adults have high risk of fertility problems. It has also been suggested that they have more chances of miscarriage than other women who have not been exposed to tobacco.
Smoking affects mostly all the organs of the body and suppresses the body's immune system. It results in bad skin (due to lack of oxygen supply), bad breath (halitosis) and also leads to yellowing of teeth. People who smoke are more susceptible to bronchitis, pneumonia and other respiratory diseases. Both men and women face fertility problems due to smoking. Smoking during pregnancy may result in the impairment of the baby's growth and development. Smoking is thus harmful and can shorten our life-span. So, let's accept the smoking facts and stop smoking and practice healthy living
Theres another video that surfaced that showed someone planting something on Adam, or trying to, as he was being taken away. On the surface one would think this was pot, but considering he was handed over to federal agents, and regular police know nothing, I suspect maybe they planted a bio weapon of some kind to justify placing him under NDAA detention and subjection. This way, he has no due process and they (DHS) can dispose of him as they see fit.
Actually, having studied this subject (Second Hand Smoke or "SHS"), there is no scientifically valid evidence showing any harm done to humans by second hand smoke. Those studies I've found that state such harms are defective in one or more ways such as increasing the margin of error, cherry picking, having such small sample frames that they are statistically invalid, etc. Further, the claims made are always at the extreme worst and ignore the RANGE of possibilities.
Your talking to the wrong person if your tring to make a case for smoking. Any studies you seen that shows it to be harmless was conducted by scientists, and/or organazations owned or controled, hired, ect. by the tobacco companys.
As an example, a major EPA "study" (actually a meta analysis of cherry picked studies conducted by other parties) stated that SHS caused a 16% increase in risk. What it didn't report was that the margin of error was doubled (making the results scientifically invalid), that the RANGE of the relative risk included 1.0 (which is no risk) and was actually below 1.0 which indicates a possible "protective factor". Nor did they tell anyone that the study was taken to court and a federal judge threw it out due to invalid scientific methods. On appeal the EPA only challenged the courts jurisdiction, not ANY of the facts, and another federal judge reversed ONLY on jurisdictional grounds.
The EPA is one such company, they have a long history of corruption.
The World Health Organization (WHO) also did a "major study" (according to them) but when they didn't like the results they tried to bury them. Found out by the press, they released a press release that stated "Don't let them lie to you: Second Hand Smoke kills"......in the small print at the very bottom of the release it stated "our study was too small to be scientifically valid".
So, SHS and all the BS laws controlling smoking are no different than gun control laws. It's about CONTROL and nothing else. .
Bullets don't float through the air controled by the wind and kill people at random. If I thought guns were one tenth as harmfull as smoking, Id be for banning them all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA45gKLv9Ys
The number one leading cause of death in the history of the world. Theres alot of softkill in our food and water, but nothing comes close to smoking, wit can kill you in so many ways, and increase the potency of the other softkills. Blocking the lungs capicity to take in oxegen (tar) addictive drug that increases the heart rate (nicotene) Smoking does not relax you, quite the oppisite. In addition to raising blood pressure and heart rate, it constricts the vains and arteries, makes them brittle, this is a dangerious combination. Second hand smoke in some cases, can be even more harmfull than smoking first hand. Much of what others breathe don't go through a filter, but comes right off the end.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/cigarette-smoking-harmful-effects-on-the-body.html
Harmful Effects of Cigarette Smoking
Tobacco contains harmful chemicals such as nicotine and cyanide, which at higher doses are lethal. Nicotine is an alkaloid that has been used in insecticides and in medicines. Though everyone is aware of the fact that smoking can cause serious life-threatening health complications, people can't quit since nicotine is highly addictive, similar to heroin and other addictive drugs. Researchers have found out that nicotine has a powerful impact on the brain activity and the body and mind get used to it as normal. Due to its unavoidable harmful effects, governments have launched public awareness programs and campaigns that ban smoking in public places. Let's see some of the harmful effects of smoking on the human body.
Heart Disease and Stroke: Every time a person smokes, his/her heart rate increases temporarily due to the smoke that contains a mixture of carbon monoxide and nicotine. It results in straining the heart and blood vessels, leading to high blood pressure or hypertension. Smoking also causes fat deposition in the blood vessels and narrows them, causing heart attack and stroke. There are also cases of paralysis of feet and hands due to reduced blood supply and lack of oxygen in those parts of the body. About 30% of the deaths from heart disease are due to smoking.
Emphysema: Cigarette smoking is one of the major causes of emphysema. Emphysema is a chronic disease caused due to damage and destruction of the walls of the alveoli (tiny air sacs) in the lungs. Cigarette smoke enhances the production of substances that reduce the elasticity of the air sacs inside the lungs. This results in the overall reduction of the lung's ability in inhaling oxygen and exhaling carbon dioxide. About 80-90% of cases of emphysema are due to cigarette smoking. Patients of emphysema suffer from shortness of breath.
Cancer: Smoking can cause different types of cancer including lung, throat, stomach, and bladder cancer. Overall, 30% cases of cancer and 87% percent of lung cancer are due to smoking. Lung cancer is caused due to the tar (a thick sticky substance) in the tobacco smoke. It is found out that male smokers have 10 times more chances of getting lung cancer, than the non-smoking male population.
Heartburn and Peptic Ulcer: Smoking affects the whole digestive system of the body leading to heartburn and peptic ulcer. It weakens the lower esophageal sphincter (LES), and allows entry of the stomach's natural acidic juices to esophagus, which in turn causes heartburn. Smoking increases the chances of infection of the stomach lining and also leads to excessive secretion of stomach acids. Therefore cases of peptic ulcer are seen more among people who smoke cigarettes.
Passive smoking is highly dangerous. According to a study, women who are exposed to passive smoking either in their childhood or as adults have high risk of fertility problems. It has also been suggested that they have more chances of miscarriage than other women who have not been exposed to tobacco.
Smoking affects mostly all the organs of the body and suppresses the body's immune system. It results in bad skin (due to lack of oxygen supply), bad breath (halitosis) and also leads to yellowing of teeth. People who smoke are more susceptible to bronchitis, pneumonia and other respiratory diseases. Both men and women face fertility problems due to smoking. Smoking during pregnancy may result in the impairment of the baby's growth and development. Smoking is thus harmful and can shorten our life-span. So, let's accept the smoking facts and stop smoking and practice healthy living
shastadude17
Regular Member
Fair enough, but it's not an illegal mob marching on the seat of government. It is an open carry demonstration.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The real law violation is the lack of respect that the government in DC has for the constitution, IMO.
We-the-People
Regular Member
Actually I was making the case that SECOND HAND smoke is not hazardous. Everything you posted was in regards to smokers themselves. Since those people (smokers) are making their own decisions about what to do with their bodies, it's an entirely different debate. Also, absent from (not surprisingly so) is the statistically relevant, and very inconvienient medical benefits of smoking.....though I would not go so far as to say they outweigh the hazards...... smokers are less likely to develop dementia and parkinsons disease.
But all of the anti smoking laws are based upon poor (i.e. JUNK) science that attempts to impart some negative health effect upon third parties. While some individuals are allergic to second hand smoke (SHS), just as some are allergic to peanuts and other items, there are no studies I am aware of that have statistically relevant data showing a correllation between SHS and health hazards. In fact, statistically relevant data is present showing that children of heavy smokers who grow up to be non smokers have a protective factor against developing lung cancer. Another inconvienient truth that the special interest groups against smoking will never admit to.
As I said, in the end the anti-smoking crusade is the same as the anti-gun crusade. It's about CONTROL and nothing else.
Gil223
Regular Member
For a post that has absolutely nothing to do with OC of handguns, this vaguely related subject certainly drew more attention than the vast majority of OC-related subjects. 
Pax...
Pax...