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Barack Hussein Obama

Flintlock

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Chaingun81 wrote:
I agree that 2 party system and choosing between another douche and another turd over and over again sucks big time. In fact this crap along with elaborate primiries system and electoral college, it has nothing to do with democaracy whatsoever - if you had any illusions. America doesn't have democracy (and neither does any other country for that matter). It's all crap. But it is the REALITY. You wanna change it for real - go for a revolution along with the civil warand see how many people join in. Not many. You will be just another guy who went postal and gave more instruments to gun grabbers. When Obama passes legislation outlawing your guns and police will use the NICS check database to confiscate your guns, what you gonna do? One round at a time? Well, you are saying you gonna shoot at police? Another guy gone postal? Great choice! You people are not any better than liberal hippies - living in a fantasy world and refuse to deal with reality. You deserve Obama or Hillaryfor president then - you using the same logic as their supporters!The modern day battles arethe legislative ones and thank godNRAmanagement understand it - if it was run by people like you, we would have less gun rights than citizens of France. This is pathetic! :banghead::cuss::banghead:
Hmmm, I am not sure which reality you are referring to... Your propensity to support the two-party system andhaving thoughts that lifewill be ok under the leadership ofMcCain, is the true fanatsy. McCain voted to end gun shows as we know them and authored campaign finance reform. I personally think we would get a worse version of GWB under his administration. I'd honestly rather fight political battles with a demon like Hillary where the conservative base will become re-energized,than have to fight them against another so-called republican in democrat clothing.

Do you know what will change if everyone keeps voting for the two major parties every time....?Nothing...
 

Doug Huffman

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Chaingun81 wrote:
The modern day battles arethe legislative ones and thank godNRAmanagement understand it - if it was run by people like you, we would have less gun rights than citizens of France. This is pathetic! :banghead::cuss::banghead:


Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA LEO FOAD <<-- Tit for Project Exile Tat
 

imperialism2024

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Sigh.

In reality, though, I'll probably vote McCain. But this is the reasoning: I don't think he's any better or worse for gun owners' rights than Obama (er, I mean HUSSEIN OSAMA BIN LADEN OMG OMG LOL LOL) or Hillary. However, McCain will be stealing less money from my paycheck, which means I'll be able to buy more guns and ammo while I still can. With Obama or Hillary, the path to anti-gun legislation will only be a little faster, but I won't have much of a paycheck left after they pilfer it to pay for social welfare programs. While the GOP is ruining the country financially, at least they're not resorting to higher taxes... yet.

But really, I doubt the country will go into armed revolt due to idealogical differences. It will be economics. When everyone wakes up one morning and discovers that the dollar is worth 1/100 of what it was worth the day before, because the rest of the world no longer possesses the "faith" that is the foundation of our currency, they're gonna get pissed. It's probably the most important issue in this country right now, but most people don't know about it, and the ones that do know about it try to avoid it: devaluation of the US dollar.

Anyhow, that's entirely OT, but I don't feel very bad because the thread was fairly OT to begin with...
 

Chaingun81

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imperialism 2024 - now i totally agree with you. And the fiscal policy of the democratic party pisses me off just as much as their anti-gun views. I dont believe in income tax at all, especially the progressive scale which essentiallypunishes people for working harder and making more money. It my perfect world (where Ron Paulis the president) there would be no income tax at all. But it the real world where we unfortunately live, republican lower taxes are better than democratic higher taxes. Again, unpleasant, but compromise. I hate democratic social welfare crap with passion. I didn't get my master's in engineering and i don't work my ass off every day to pay for some useless piece of crap in thehoodwho does nothing all day long but thinks "yo cracka mozafakas owe me". All this crap drives me crazy. And McCain's pro-illegal immigration views also piss me off. But still a little better than "let's pay more taxes so their 25 children per family can get healthcare" crap from Hillary. Anyway, i think i gonna go and buy another gun tomorrow since i still can...
 

asforme

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Chaingun81 wrote:
The modern day battles arethe legislative ones
Then why do we need the 2nd Amendment?

"...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."

"...being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

The founding fathers recognized that not all problems could be solved with more laws.
 

Mjolnir

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1, ron paul is a pipedream the uniformed cant letgo of.

2, gun owners are our own worst enemy.
 

swillden

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Tomahawk wrote:
In the end, these are pieces of colored cloth, mere symbols, and symbology can change, just like languages develop new dialects. But the idea of liberty and natural rights is a part of human nature and remains rooted in logic and reason no matter what. That idea is what I hold to.
+1

I like to think of it this way: Suppose there were an ideological revolution in, say, Canada. Suppose the Canadians truly embraced individual liberty and natural rights, encoding them into their government so that they could not be chipped away, or worked around. Suppose they all but eliminated taxes, allowing people to keep the fruits of their labors. Suppose they created whatever you think is your utopian ideal.

Would you then be willing to stand up and honor the maple leaf? Would you accord it the same -- or more -- reverence as the american flag? Would you begin wearing a maple leaf lapel pin?

Do you love your country because it's free? Or because it's where you happened to be born? Or because it has the military with the baddest weapons?
 

Flintlock

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Mjolnir wrote:
1, ron paul is a pipedream the uniformed cant letgo of.

2, gun owners are our own worst enemy.
Who is the uniformed? Do you mean uninformed?

The gun owners that think the second amendment is about duck hunting is a seriousproblem, butwe asgun owners in general are not the "worst enemy."

Whatabout the United Nations?
 

Tomahawk

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Mjolnir wrote:
1, ron paul is a pipedream the uniformed cant letgo of.

2, gun owners are our own worst enemy.
Grammertime_01.gif
 

I_Hate_Illinois

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Chaingun81 wrote:
I agree that 2 party system and choosing between another douche and another turd over and over again sucks big time. In fact this crap along with elaborate primiries system and electoral college, it has nothing to do with democaracy whatsoever - if you had any illusions. America doesn't have democracy (and neither does any other country for that matter). It's all crap. But it is the REALITY. You wanna change it for real - go for a revolution along with the civil warand see how many people join in. Not many. You will be just another guy who went postal and gave more instruments to gun grabbers. When Obama passes legislation outlawing your guns and police will use the NICS check database to confiscate your guns, what you gonna do? One round at a time? Well, you are saying you gonna shoot at police? Another guy gone postal? Great choice! You people are not any better than liberal hippies - living in a fantasy world and refuse to deal with reality. You deserve Obama or Hillaryfor president then - you using the same logic as their supporters!The modern day battles arethe legislative ones and thank godNRAmanagement understand it - if it was run by people like you, we would have less gun rights than citizens of France. This is pathetic! :banghead::cuss::banghead:
Trust me, no matter who is president, they are not going to confiscate our guns. Remember, the police and the military are citizens as well. Of all the police and military people I know, never have I once met one who said they would go door to door confiscating guns. That is where their allegiance to their job ends. I have asked them and that is what they have told me. Yeah, there are some douche bags who are in the military and police departments who would do it, but not enough to accomplish anything before full scale riots occured. I know this is not what happened in Katrina, but come on, if they tried this nationwide, the shit would hit the fan. Obama and Clinton both know they cant get anything passed for major gun control in the Congress. People are seeing through the lies of gun control. Even CNN reported how it doesnt work. Trust me, they arent going to pass shit.
 

FogRider

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I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
Trust me, no matter who is president, they are not going to confiscate our guns. Remember, the police and the military are citizens as well. Of all the police and military people I know, never have I once met one who said they would go door to door confiscating guns. That is where their allegiance to their job ends. I have asked them and that is what they have told me. Yeah, there are some douche bags who are in the military and police departments who would do it, but not enough to accomplish anything before full scale riots occured. I know this is not what happened in Katrina, but come on, if they tried this nationwide, the shit would hit the fan. Obama and Clinton both know they cant get anything passed for major gun control in the Congress. People are seeing through the lies of gun control. Even CNN reported how it doesnt work. Trust me, they arent going to pass shit.
I've never been worried about keeping my arms. It just isn't going to happen. The problem is, with all the fear-mongering we are losing sight of the real danger, and that is the fact that we are slowly but sure losing our right to bear arms. One without the other is pointless.
 

I_Hate_Illinois

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FogRider wrote:
I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
Trust me, no matter who is president, they are not going to confiscate our guns. Remember, the police and the military are citizens as well. Of all the police and military people I know, never have I once met one who said they would go door to door confiscating guns. That is where their allegiance to their job ends. I have asked them and that is what they have told me. Yeah, there are some douche bags who are in the military and police departments who would do it, but not enough to accomplish anything before full scale riots occured. I know this is not what happened in Katrina, but come on, if they tried this nationwide, the shit would hit the fan. Obama and Clinton both know they cant get anything passed for major gun control in the Congress. People are seeing through the lies of gun control. Even CNN reported how it doesnt work. Trust me, they arent going to pass shit.
I've never been worried about keeping my arms. It just isn't going to happen. The problem is, with all the fear-mongering we are losing sight of the real danger, and that is the fact that we are slowly but sure losing our right to bear arms. One without the other is pointless.
+1
An excellent point, my friend.
 

casullshooter

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I would rather fight McCain 20% of the time than Clinton/Obama 95% of the time.

If we elect the correct congress then the President does not matter. I am concentrating my efforts to help elect a pro-gun Congressman here in 11D of VA. If everyone will concentrate on that we will all benefit as a group.

Mike Fimian for Congress 11th/VA a pro-gun(not a Lawyer) candidate.
 

deepdiver

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FogRider wrote:
I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
Trust me, no matter who is president, they are not going to confiscate our guns. Remember, the police and the military are citizens as well. Of all the police and military people I know, never have I once met one who said they would go door to door confiscating guns. That is where their allegiance to their job ends. I have asked them and that is what they have told me. Yeah, there are some douche bags who are in the military and police departments who would do it, but not enough to accomplish anything before full scale riots occured. I know this is not what happened in Katrina, but come on, if they tried this nationwide, the shit would hit the fan. Obama and Clinton both know they cant get anything passed for major gun control in the Congress. People are seeing through the lies of gun control. Even CNN reported how it doesnt work. Trust me, they arent going to pass shit.
I've never been worried about keeping my arms. It just isn't going to happen. The problem is, with all the fear-mongering we are losing sight of the real danger, and that is the fact that we are slowly but sure losing our right to bear arms. One without the other is pointless.
I don't think that is true as to bearing arms if you look at the last 40 years.

We now have 37 shall issue CC states.
We have 11 may issue CC states.
We only have 2 no CC states.

We now have 11 Gold Star OC states.
We have 13 licensed OC states (6 of which are also may issue states)

WI, one of our 2 midwest problem states, has sent a CC law to the governor twice (IIRC) where it has been vetoed. We had a similar problem in MO where we have now finally had CC for 4 years and are working on Gold Star OC status.

Most of the no-OC laws I come across were passed in the late 60s/70s. CC was already severely restricted most places by then to the point of a MD or MA today. See the wiki-graphic here showing how shall issue has spread across the nation in the last 20 years. OC is making a comeback as well with several states passing full pre-emption for OC in that time. There are really only 13 states that you either just can't OC in or are so restrictive in some manner to make it essentially banned.

Anyway, I'm out of time to continue further. I'll close by saying that I think the pendulum is certainly swinging back towards self-defense. An individual right decision by SCOTUS in June, especially with a strict scrutiny or the dream of incorporation, will only further the re-assertion of our constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.
 

asforme

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FogRider wrote:
I_Hate_Illinois wroteI've never been worried about keeping my arms. It just isn't going to happen. The problem is, with all the fear-mongering we are losing sight of the real danger, and that is the fact that we are slowly but sure losing our right to bear arms. One without the other is pointless.
I have to disagree with you on the police and military refusing to go confiscate guns. Remember Katrina? It wasn't just local corrupt New Orleans cops confiscating guns, it was also the National Guard that came from all over the country.
 

imperialism2024

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asforme wrote:
FogRider wrote:
I_Hate_Illinois wroteI've never been worried about keeping my arms. It just isn't going to happen. The problem is, with all the fear-mongering we are losing sight of the real danger, and that is the fact that we are slowly but sure losing our right to bear arms. One without the other is pointless.
I have to disagree with you on the police and military refusing to go confiscate guns. Remember Katrina? It wasn't just local corrupt New Orleans cops confiscating guns, it was also the National Guard that came from all over the country.
I think IHI is referring to local LEOs. The guys (and girls) who know and live with the people in their jurisdiction, IMO, would be very reluctant to confiscate. In general, outside of the cities, I'd think it's fair to say that local LEOs will refuse to confiscate.

However, that's not talking about federal "L"EOs. I doubt the vast majority of BATFE agents would have a problem going door to door confiscating guns, Tasering and beating old ladies in the process. But maybe that's just BATFE-bashing, though I have no remorse for anyone who signs up for a job that involves violating constitutional rights as part of the job description.

Anyhow, the military is a wildcard. My fear is that "following orders" and applying lessons learned in Iraq (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/10135.html) might sway those who otherwise know its inherently wrong.

Regardless, as has been discussed in another thread (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/10141.html), it's the ammo that gun grabbers would go after, not the guns themselves. Less confrontation. Or in the case of a Republican administration, they would sic the BATFE on gun owners, perhaps giving an "anti-terrorism" slant to it for justification.
 

isaiah

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I won't be voting for the lesser of two.. or three evils.
There'll be a slew of write-ins for Ron Paul. Probably the most for any one person in an American presidential election.

I can't push myself to vote for someone I absolutely disagree with or who threaten my freedom in any way. I'll be writing in Ron Paul.

Switzerland looks better and better all the time. Free training and a rifle in exchange for your defense of the country. And lots of snowboarding!!
 

FogRider

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asforme wrote:
I have to disagree with you on the police and military refusing to go confiscate guns. Remember Katrina? It wasn't just local corrupt New Orleans cops confiscating guns, it was also the National Guard that came from all over the country.
I don't think this is quite the situation anyone has in mind when they say "confiscate guns". The NO confiscations happened after the owners were forced to more or less abandon their firearms. I'd like to see that attempted while the owners are still home.

deepdiver wrote:
I don't think that is true as to bearing arms if you look at the last 40 years.

We now have 37 shall issue CC states.
We have 11 may issue CC states.
We only have 2 no CC states.

We now have 11 Gold Star OC states.
We have 13 licensed OC states (6 of which are also may issue states)

WI, one of our 2 midwest problem states, has sent a CC law to the governor twice (IIRC) where it has been vetoed. We had a similar problem in MO where we have now finally had CC for 4 years and are working on Gold Star OC status.

Most of the no-OC laws I come across were passed in the late 60s/70s. CC was already severely restricted most places by then to the point of a MD or MA today. See the wiki-graphic
 

Citizen

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I_Hate_Illinois wrote:
SNIP It's not a matter of blind patriotism to stand with your hand over your heart during the National Anthem. It's simply a gesture of of respect and appreciation for the country you live in and, more importantly, the people who have died to give you the right to choose whether you sit down or stand up. They chose to stand up for our freedoms, so I choose to stand up in memory of them during the national anthem.

Not arguing with anybody. Just taking the idea and running further with it. Expanding on it.



A "nation"is apolitically associated group of people. Notthe government, not the countryside, not the fruited plains, nor the majestic purple mountains. A group of people.

What does the flag represent? It represents the American people. Each and every individual American citizen. Omitting none. Given a big enough flag, you might be able to have one fiber for each individual American.

When we pledge allegiance to the Flag, what are we really saying?

At its very core, we are pledging allegiance TO ONE ANOTHER.



What is the subject of the National Anthem? The Flag. "Whose broad stripes and bright stars.."

When we stand for the National Anthem, with our hand over our heart, what are we really doing? We are showingrespect for ONE ANOTHER, and those who have gone before.



Attheir very core, the Flag and the National Anthem are about us. What greater respect can be paid to a fellow American than to pledge allegiance to him? What greater respect than to stand with hand over heart while his National Anthem is played.

You might ask, "What if he is notworthy of my allegiance?" You might question, "What might I have to dofor him if I give my allegiance?" "What if his political goals are different than mine?"

This is already solved. There really is only one valid, workable concept that letsyougive your allegiance to him, and his to you, regardless of creed. All others risk collision, discord, and division. That concept is liberty.

I think that at the very center, the veryheart, of genuine respect is the statement, "I recognize yourfreedom, yourliberty, to be who you are, to think what you think, to do what you want."It is more than respect, it is appreciation.

Allegiance goes one step further and says, "I will support you, I will defend you." The only possible valid, workableallegiance isone that says, "...in maintaining your liberty"



What greater respect can one man pay another than to genuinely recognize his liberty? His freedom?
 
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