OT: question about legality of "license check" in NC

[smlawrence]

Yes you can be stopped for making a u-turn at a checkpoint.



He can and should have been charged with GS 14-223 - Resisting Officers

Please provide the statute that says I "Must" take part in a "Roadblock" OR please provide statute Identifying a legal U-Turn as illegal. Thanks.

 

[Kivuli]

My mistake, I assumed a bit of common sense on your part.

I have not at any time insulted you. Let's keep that mutual, please.

I partially paid for the road. If I had completely paid for it, it would be my property and no one else's. I would have it all to myself, and would be the only car on the road at any given time.

Of course, but you didn't pay for it. What you're essentially telling me is that the few dollars you've paid into the trillions upon trillions that have been put into the road system over its existence entitles you to complete, unhindered use whenever and however you like it. That just isn't logical. It's analagous to you paying 1 cent a month of a $1000 rent bill, and then insisting you don't have to pick up your dirty dishes.

However, let me explain it a little bit clearer for you:

My 'ownership' of my part of the public road system would allow me to use it, similar to now, without the license. If you'll recall, my original point was that we should have the right to drive on public roads without a license. That is my belief based upon two things:

1. I, as an American Citizen, have the right to travel without identifying myself to any government agent.

2. Driving an automobile is the most common and convenient form of transportation.

Which of these do you disagree with? Or is there something you believe I am overlooking.

That's just it though, you don't "own" in the traditional sense ANY part of the road system. A tiny part of your taxes goes towards its maintenance. For your second two points, you as an American Citizen have the right to travel at your whim, yes. You do not have permission to use the interstate road system (or local road system in the case of state, county, or municipal roadways) without abiding by the terms of use that the builders of that road system have set up. Driving an automobile is the most common and convenient form of transportation for many applications, yes. This does not give you the unhindered right to drive said automobile wherever and however you want, or you'd be infringing on OTHER people's rights.

This part does not specifically address the checkpoints, I'm addressing what I perceive to be an underlying flaw in the logic of your basis to opposition of them.

Oh, and seeing as you like to make smart ass answers, let's also assume I am committing no crime, and have not committed any crime in the past that would necessitate me identifying myself

My answer was not intended to be smart-ass. I was trying to get across the point that your taxes specifically have contributed an almost imperceptible amount to the actual roadway maintenance fund. Hence the rent analogy above. Thus, to say that you should have unlimited, unrestricted use of something that isn't yours is folly.

 

[Kivuli]

Please provide the statute that says I "Must" take part in a "Roadblock" OR please provide statute Identifying a legal U-Turn as illegal. Thanks.

The North Carolina Supreme Court has ruled that an officer may monitor a checkpoint's entrance for vehicles whose drivers may be attempting to avoid the checkpoint and may puruse and stop a vehicle that has turned away from a checkpoint within its perimeters to determine why the vehicle did so. For example, an officer may pursue and stop a vehicle that avoids an impaired-driving checkpoint by making a legal left turn before the checkpoint if the driver could have observed the checkpoint ahead.

Arrest, Search, and Investigation in North Carolina, 3rd edition, Robert L Farb, p. 31
​

It isn't a specific statute, but it is case law.

 

[mattwestm]

The North Carolina Supreme Court has ruled that an officer may monitor a checkpoint's entrance for vehicles whose drivers may be attempting to avoid the checkpoint and may puruse and stop a vehicle that has turned away from a checkpoint within its perimeters to determine why the vehicle did so. For example, an officer may pursue and stop a vehicle that avoids an impaired-driving checkpoint by making a legal left turn before the checkpoint if the driver could have observed the checkpoint ahead.

Arrest, Search, and Investigation in North Carolina, 3rd edition, Robert L Farb, p. 31
​

It isn't a specific statute, but it is case law.

Sometimes it might be quicker to avoid the checkpoint. I've only been through one, but I had to wait at least 10 minutes. This one was in Raleigh a few years ago during New Years. Turning around will surely get you pulled over, but you could just tell the officer that you did not feel like waiting in line for something you do not agree with.

 

[Kivuli]

Sometimes it might be quicker to avoid the checkpoint. I've only been through one, but I had to wait at least 10 minutes. This one was in Raleigh a few years ago during New Years. Turning around will surely get you pulled over, but you could just tell the officer that you did not feel like waiting in line for something you do not agree with.

I completely agree. You may be late and need to get somewhere, you may have made a wrong turn that brought you to the checkpoint and are correcting it, or you may simply just not wish to deal with it. Any of those reasons are perfectly valid for not wanting to go through a checkpoint. As you say though, you are legally able to be stopped for doing so. The officer won't have anything to pin on you when he does, but that's a separate issue.

 

[smlawrence]

The North Carolina Supreme Court has ruled that an officer may monitor a checkpoint's entrance for vehicles whose drivers may be attempting to avoid the checkpoint and may puruse and stop a vehicle that has turned away from a checkpoint within its perimeters to determine why the vehicle did so. For example, an officer may pursue and stop a vehicle that avoids an impaired-driving checkpoint by making a legal left turn before the checkpoint if the driver could have observed the checkpoint ahead.

Arrest, Search, and Investigation in North Carolina, 3rd edition, Robert L Farb, p. 31
​

It isn't a specific statute, but it is case law.

I appreciate the information.

 

[Smith45acp]

Please provide the statute that says I "Must" take part in a "Roadblock" OR please provide statute Identifying a legal U-Turn as illegal. Thanks.

A u turn or avoiding a checkpoint is not illegal AFAIK.

But be careful challenging them by not rolling down windows etc. I give kudos to the guy in Vegas who pulled that move because I agree with him wholeheartedly from a Constitutional perspective. But it takes SO VERY LITTLE for an officer to decide to charge you with GS 14-223 - Resist, Delay, or Obstruct a public officer while he is attempting to perform a duty of his office (paraphrased).

 

[Gilly]

I went through one with my wife a few days ago here in NC. She was driving but I had my pistol with me so I offered my license and permit and informed him I had a pistol down near my feet. He seemed to study me for a second and asked what kind of pistol it was. I replied "Springfield XD45" and waited for him to ask me to hand it over to him so he could run the serial number. He didn't ask that but did ask my wife if she was wearing her corrective lenses. She replied in the affirmative and he told us to have a nice day. The whole time he seemed automatically suspicious of us. I've been through 4 or 5 of these in my time here and never got more than a cursory glance before this one. Weird...

 

[condeist]

Like I posted earlier, if you go through one with something you shouldn't have, then that's your own fault.

But since we're all law abiding citizens here and if you guys got nothing to hide, then why complain about a license check point?

Because I'm a free man living in a free country. Because the police have no right to pull me over w/o cause. Because theyre fishing for something to pin on me and that is not ethical. Because they're trying to raise money writing tickets rather than do real police work and bust real criminals which doesnt bring in revenue. Because I personally believe this practice is a crock of **** and I have a right to express my opinion. Because allowing small infringements upon our rights leads to larger ones. And because of the very fact that I AM a law abiding citizen, not a criminal. I don't even speed. I shouldn't have to ever see a police officer, unless I am the one making the report against someone else.

 

[mattwestm]

I went through one with my wife a few days ago here in NC. She was driving but I had my pistol with me so I offered my license and permit and informed him I had a pistol down near my feet. He seemed to study me for a second and asked what kind of pistol it was. I replied "Springfield XD45" and waited for him to ask me to hand it over to him so he could run the serial number. He didn't ask that but did ask my wife if she was wearing her corrective lenses. She replied in the affirmative and he told us to have a nice day. The whole time he seemed automatically suspicious of us. I've been through 4 or 5 of these in my time here and never got more than a cursory glance before this one. Weird...

If you are a passenger, I don't believe you are required to show ID and permit to the officer. Someone correct me if I am wrong...

 

[elixin77]

If you are a passenger, I don't believe you are required to show ID and permit to the officer. Someone correct me if I am wrong...

Technically, you don't have to say anything unless the officer addresses you directly