Rem 700 Recall.. About time.

[WalkingWolf]

Don't fiddle with the trigger. That is why Remy sealed the adjustments. Duhhhhhhhhhh

 

[The Truth]

OK you kinda got me.

 

[WalkingWolf]

If a shooter does not have enough strength for a five pound trigger they do not have enough to handle the recoil of a high power rifle. Leave the trigger at five pounds.

 

[J_dazzle23]

I don't understand why this one is such a big deal. I sell rem, mossburg, winchester, savage, henry, stoeger, benelli, etc...and Remington honest to heck has the most recalls. They happen all the time. It's not like a recall is this big scary thing for a company, they are used to it. Like I said, the 887 had a recall just 2 weeks ago. If any of you actually sell guns, you know recalls are normal business. There are expected to be mistakes here and there in manufacturing.

Believe what you want, but realize the only difference about this recall vs all the other ones, is that you have actually heard about it.

Ww, I disagree, I feel there is more than enough anecdote to show a problem in manufacturing some of this particular firearm.

I won't deny your worry about media manipulation is without merit. That at least shows your heart is in the right place and maybe you are not wasting time trolling. Tyically, I would think the same. But I've seen enough to convince me the recall is merited.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I don't understand why this one is such a big deal. I sell rem, mossburg, winchester, savage, henry, stoeger, benelli, etc...and Remington honest to heck has the most recalls. They happen all the time. It's not like a recall is this big scary thing for a company, they are used to it. Like I said, the 887 had a recall just 2 weeks ago. If any of you actually sell guns, you know recalls are normal business. There are expected to be mistakes here and there in manufacturing.

Believe what you want, but realize the only difference about this recall vs all the other ones, is that you have actually heard about it.

Ww, I disagree, I feel there is more than enough anecdote to show a problem in manufacturing some of this particular firearm.

I won't deny your worry about media manipulation is without merit. That at least shows your heart is in the right place and maybe you are not wasting time trolling. Tyically, I would think the same. But I've seen enough to convince me the recall is merited.

Did you get your booty from Red Bull yet?

Snips from the Remington 700 manual

Don’t Alter or Modify Your Gun and Have it Serviced Regularly.
Your firearm has
been designed to operate according to certain factory specifications. You’ll jeopardize your safety
and that of others around you by attempting to alter its trigger, mechanical safety or other mechanisms. So never
alter or modify your firearm in any way.

Always put the safety mechanism
in the ‘S’ position before handling, loading
or unloading the firearm.

 

[J_dazzle23]

A memo in the 40 ' s from the designer of thr trigger mechanism, signed and dated, before he could get "old and confused" : http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226703_Rem_Doc_02.pdf

Inspection report in 1947 after design: http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226704_Rem_Doc_03.pdf

“theoretical unsafe condition” involving the gun’s safety

The fix that walker proposed in 1948, that never happened:

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226710_Rem_Doc_09.pdf

 

[WalkingWolf]

A memo in the 40 ' s from the designer of thr trigger mechanism, signed and dated, before he could get "old and confused" : http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226703_Rem_Doc_02.pdf

Inspection report in 1947 after design: http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226704_Rem_Doc_03.pdf

“theoretical unsafe condition” involving the gun’s safety

The fix that walker proposed in 1948, that never happened:

http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/editorialfiles/2012/05/03/2226710_Rem_Doc_09.pdf

The memo is in references to changes is the sear depth made by some idiot changing them. As the trigger comes from the factory with a 5 to 6 pound trigger pull the gun is safe. Not to mention that they clearly in the manual tell owners to NOT change/alter the trigger, and to load unload WITH THE SAFETY ON.

So don't change the trigger, Don't use unsafe firearms handling practice. READ the manual and familiarize yourself with all firearms that are in your possession. If a firearm is new and it does not meet specs, send it back. If buying a used firearm and it does not meet specs, send it to a authorized technician.

The manual has very detailed instructions on how to care for, lube, inspect trigger and safety for function. A manual is free to download online, there is no excuse for stupidity, nobody stupid should have a gun. I would trust a felon with a gun far more than I would trust an idiot.

 

[J_dazzle23]

If a firearm is new and it does not meet specs, send it back.

this is precisely what this recall is.

I would trust a felon with a gun far more than I would a idiot.

I agree.

 

[WalkingWolf]

this is precisely what this recall is.



I agree.

A recall is getting dumb idiots to go away. But clearly it is not working because they are still around.

 

[J_dazzle23]

A recall is getting dumb idiots to go away. But clearly it is not working because they are still around.

Who are the idiots, ww? Enlighten us. The thousands that have complained to remington WITH OUT hurting anyone with their gun?

Or is it that those people, every single one, messed with the trigger and is lying? Is it everyone that has witnessed it is lying too? As well as everyone with video evidence?

are all the people involved with the court cases over the last 20 years with remington paying out 20 million dollars, who looked at all the data idiots?

The designer is an idiot too, I'm sure.

And all of us here that disagree with you are either lying or idiots?

If not, please clarify. It seems that is what you are insinuating.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Who are the idiots, ww? Enlighten us. The thousands that have complained to remington WITH OUT hurting anyone with their gun?

Or is it that those people, every single one, messed with the trigger and is lying? Is it everyone that has witnessed it is lying too? As well as everyone with video evidence?

are all the people involved with the court cases over the last 20 years with remington paying out 20 million dollars, who looked at all the data idiots?

The designer is an idiot too, I'm sure.

And all of us here that disagree with you are either lying or idiots?

If not, please clarify. It seems that is what you are insinuating.

Anybody who does not follow safety rules. Anybody who violates safety rules and does not take the blame. The designer talked only of the safety in the interview, and trigger when it had it's original settings changed. The designer was clearly concerned that some idiots would disregard the seal and alter the trigger settings.

Simple, follow the rules, don't tamper with a gun, don't believe the libtard media trying to damage the reputation of a firearms company, don't be a tool. Even a homemade pipe gun cannot be unsafe unless it is used unsafely. The problem is not the gun, the problem is idiots.

If someone shoots another person or themselves unintentionally they are more than a idiot, they are a waste of oxygen. All people who shoot others without justification should go to jail.

This issue comes up with BP guns all the time where the idiots are told not to use smokeless powder and they do anyway. Follow the rules, follow proper use, read the manual, if not available look it up online. Don't shoot anybody unless they are a threat. Don't be a unsafe moron.

 

[OC for ME]

The memo is in references to changes is the sear depth made by some idiot changing them. As the trigger comes from the factory with a 5 to 6 pound trigger pull the gun is safe. Not to mention that they clearly in the manual tell owners to NOT change/alter the trigger, and to load unload WITH THE SAFETY ON.

So don't change the trigger, Don't use unsafe firearms handling practice. READ the manual and familiarize yourself with all firearms that are in your possession. If a firearm is new and it does not meet specs, send it back. If buying a used firearm and it does not meet specs, send it to a authorized technician.

The manual has very detailed instructions on how to care for, lube, inspect trigger and safety for function. A manual is free to download online, there is no excuse for stupidity, nobody stupid should have a gun. I would trust a felon with a gun far more than I would trust an idiot.

OT for a second...maybe.

"Now I instead say he robbed me... Well popo done go and cuff you up I keep hat or it goes to evidence...you go to court I testify you done did rob me. You now have to prove you didn't...."

Seems odd that a cop would place the burden on the accused to prove innocence where it is the state's burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I view this Rem 700 in the same light. Rem is being forced to prove that they did not do 'X' and those folks accusing them of 'X' seem to rely upon anecdotal (circumstantial) "evidence." It seems that the issue is moot now that Rem has apparently recalled suspect rifles.

I too am curious, where is the laboratory replicated unintended discharge data. If the accusation is based on a CNBC claim (the same NBC of the Checy trucks burst into flames when struck story) and claims made by those personally affected then more scrutiny is needed. If the trigger mechanism were not altered on any of the rifle claimed to have discharged unintentionally... If they have been altered...

As I stated earlier, I don't own one "just in case." I know folks who do and this has never happened to them. Other than the news story I have never heard of this to have happened to anyone.

Choosing your anecdotal evidence seems to be the call of the day.

 

[J_dazzle23]

Anybody who does not follow safety rules. Anybody who violates safety rules and does not take the blame.....

If someone shoots another person or themselves unintentionally they are more than a idiot, they are a waste of oxygen. .

Ok, so now that we have quantified who is an "idiot" to you, I'll pose a question:

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps, just MAYBE, many of the people that have seen this, have (a) not tampered with the trigger, and (b) are not an idiot?

 

[J_dazzle23]

Two personal anecdotes do not data make. It is not possible to sustain an assertion of non-existence, as of no hazard, without examination of the entire universe of discourse, hunting for that sneaky Black Swan camouflaged in a fractally complex reality.

There are not two personal anecdotes. There are thousands. This is common knowledge.

Nightmare, I've seen your posted profession, so I know you have at least a qualified understanding of statistics.

With if I take a sample of remington owners, and there are a handful that have experienced a defective unit, you should know that in a normally distributed data curve you will be able to say with nearly 100% accuracy that this result is an indicate of the entire population of remington 700 owners.

This isn't a scientific study, anecdote matters here.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Ok, so now that we have quantified who is an "idiot" to you, I'll pose a question:

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps, just MAYBE, many of the people that have seen this, have (a) not tampered with the trigger, and (b) are not an idiot?

And they would be lying idiots, if this is such a problem it would be easy to duplicate in a laboratory, so far that has not happened. All we have is claims, NO PROOF!

This issue has actually come up before with 1911's, but every 1911 that had this issue the sear was improperly back cut by some idiot who did not know what he/she were doing. And they were doing it to get that elusive less than 2 pound trigger. Most firearms should not have a trigger any less than 4 pounds, especially those used in the field. If you can't shoot with a 4 pound trigger get rid of your guns.

 

[J_dazzle23]

And they would be lying idiots, if this is such a problem it would be easy to duplicate in a laboratory, so far that has not happened. All we have is claims, NO PROOF!

This issue has actually come up before with 1911's, but every 1911 that had this issue the sear was improperly back cut by some idiot who did not know what he/she were doing. And they were doing it to get that elusive less than 2 pound trigger. Most firearms should not have a trigger any less than 4 pounds, especially those used in the field. If you can't shoot with a 4 pound trigger get rid of your guns.

Ok, so there we have it. We have thousands of complaints, the lawsuits, the settlements, the designer of the trigger, and the voluntary recall.

But, you believe that the people at no fault that have filed complaints are all lying.

It would probably be a good idea not to try and make everyone out to be a moron when they don't agree with your personal belief( that as far as I can see, had no specific evidence at all with this specific firearm to back it up).

I can agree to disagree with anyone, but don't sit and ridicule me and other site members for disagreeing with an opinion that we can chalk up to "I don't believe them"

 

[The Truth]

Even the people who claim to have legitimately defective firearms (they exist whether you believe it or not) could not replicate the defect more than once in a session, meaning the defect is random in nature even when the defect is known to exist. It would take an extensive study to get any real statistics.

 

[cloudcroft]

Good news: My Remington 710 is NOT part of the recall (submitted my SN and it is NOT included). So I guess they got the trigger right even though I own a so-called "crap" 710. ;-)

Sorry for the rest of you more expensive Remington 700 owners though...

 

[Freedom1Man]

Good news: My Remington 710 is NOT part of the recall (submitted my SN and it is NOT included). So I guess they got the trigger right even though I own a so-called "crap" 710. ;-)

Sorry for the rest of you more expensive Remington 700 owners though...

I like my Mauser with the Dakota 3 position safety on it better.

 

[Grapeshot]

I like my Mauser with the Dakota 3 position safety on it better.

"Dakota Arms - The cost is initially higher, but that might not be so when viewed as an entire project. The benefits the Dakota Arms pieces hold over the Timney piece are horizontal motion that will clear any scope and all three safety positions."
http://www.realguns.com/articles/389.htm