• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

SCOTUS Rules Police Cannot Search Homes Without Warrants in the Name of 'Community Caretaking'

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
947
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
As color of law knows, my career was in the fire/EMS racket. Working with the police, we sometimes did "welfare checks" based on reports from neighbors or relatives that someone in a home hadn't been seen or heard from in days. Our role was to make forcible entry and of course render medical aid if needed. We made a good bit of noise outside before anyone (cops first) went inside for the safety of all. Sadly, we often found the resident(s) deceased.

But, I always wondered about the legality of what we were doing.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,074
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
As color of law knows, my career was in the fire/EMS racket. Working with the police, we sometimes did "welfare checks" based on reports from neighbors or relatives that someone in a home hadn't been seen or heard from in days. Our role was to make forcible entry and of course render medical aid if needed. We made a good bit of noise outside before anyone (cops first) went inside for the safety of all. Sadly, we often found the resident(s) deceased.

But, I always wondered about the legality of what we were doing.

For what it's worth, my read of the opinion doesn't make "welfare checks" illegal, but rather does so to police searches associated with such activities.

Here's a link to the opinion: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/20-157
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
As color of law knows, my career was in the fire/EMS racket. Working with the police, we sometimes did "welfare checks" based on reports from neighbors or relatives that someone in a home hadn't been seen or heard from in days. Our role was to make forcible entry and of course render medical aid if needed. We made a good bit of noise outside before anyone (cops first) went inside for the safety of all. Sadly, we often found the resident(s) deceased.

But, I always wondered about the legality of what we were doing.
you entered private property without owner approval or a warrant. but you always wondered about the legality of what you were doing?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
you entered private property without owner approval or a warrant. but you always wondered about the legality of what you were doing?
So hammer6, community EMTs/caregivers do not enter without owner(s) permission since they receive tacit from the nice LEs who have unequivocally violating the property owner's fourth amendment rights first to "secure the scene"!
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,012
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The meaning of the term “community caretaking functions” are noncriminal police actions. “Noncriminal police actions” exclude those persons rendering aid to someone in need, such as public employees, EMT personnel, or private citizens. Police have powers that others don’t have.

And it should be noted that lower courts have conflated “welfare checks” with “community caretaking functions” contrary to Supreme Court ruling. The Supreme Court has only referred to “welfare checks” three times and in none or those cases was “welfare checks” at issue.

Police are not obligated to “shield their eyes” from any illegal activity; should they be invited into the home to perform “welfare checks” or see criminal activity through a window from a public area. And the police cannot enter the home uninvited without a warrant, with few exceptions, exigent circumstances. The court made it clear that police cannot perform a criminal investigation disguised as a “welfare check.” Remember, “community caretaking functions” do not apply to the home. Police entering the curtilage to investigate (a crime) is simply a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.

Again, the court made it clear, only the police can perform “community caretaking functions” (unrelated to the home) like rendering aid to motorists in disabled vehicles, and is not an open-ended license to perform them anywhere, in effect, in your home without a warrant.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,433
Location
northern wis
I made force entry into several homes as welfare checks.

Found most of the occupants dead.

One I found laying alive on the kitchen floor where he fell after having a stroke.

Done properly and legally it is a good proper function of police and EMS.

This case was about what happen after wards when and how they confiscated his firearm.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
947
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
Yes hammer6, I did wonder about the legality of it. After asking our city law director, and getting very little explanation, didn't feel very confident. Guess I could have asked a smarter law director someplace. Also I knew it was common practice in many other cities around here.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Yes hammer6, I did wonder about the legality of it. After asking our city law director, and getting very little explanation, didn't feel very confident. Guess I could have asked a smarter law director someplace. Also I knew it was common practice in many other cities around here.
just because it's commonplace doesn't mean it's right.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,012
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
just because it's commonplace doesn't mean it's right.
Apparently some have failed to read my above post or I was not clear enough in pointing out what a "wellness check" evolves.
POLICE cannot perform wellness checks without a warrant. EMTs are not the police.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,012
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Perhaps not usually. Unfortunately my junior cop (of two, the other is Chief) is the senior EMT ‘Team Leader’. I doubt that he appreciates the separation of his roles.
Many people have medical training and may be licensed by the state to perform medical services, but once someone decides to become a police officer or law enforcement officer he/she forfeits some of those freedoms us nonlaw enforcement officers have. Law enforcement personnel have strict rules they have to follow, one of which is they need a warrant to enter a man's castle.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Perhaps not usually. Unfortunately my junior cop (of two, the other is Chief) is the senior EMT ‘Team Leader’. I doubt that he appreciates the separation of his roles.

so, "your" junior cop & the chief...nice...

one would presume your junior cop, after 18 years would have progressed beyond EMT-Basic status & gotten educated to EMT - Paramedic.

but sorry it is WI after all!
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,897
Location
Granite State of Mind
The ruling doesn't say that police can't perform a wellness check without a warrant.

It says that they cannot search a home and seize property without a warrant, even under guise of a welfare check.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
The ruling doesn't say that police can't perform a wellness check without a warrant.

It says that they cannot search a home and seize property without a warrant, even under guise of a welfare check.
Kinda like telling a child don't touch the stove isn't it?
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
6,012
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
The ruling doesn't say that police can't perform a wellness check without a warrant.

It says that they cannot search a home and seize property without a warrant, even under guise of a welfare check.
What is a wellness check? As I explained the SC has never addressed wellness checks. Now there is the “emergency aid doctrine" which the courts say does not require a warrant., but the SC has failed to define what that exactly is. A wellness check does not necessarily encompass an emergency. A warrantless entry is justified where there is an objectively reasonable basis for believing that emergency aid is necessary or medical assistance is needed, or persons are in danger.

The bottom line is there is no such thing as EQUAL justice.
 

hammer6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,461
Location
Florida
Apparently some have failed to read my above post or I was not clear enough in pointing out what a "wellness check" evolves.
POLICE cannot perform wellness checks without a warrant. EMTs are not the police.
EMTs are still a government agency
 
Top